The Presiding Officer: Prynhawn da. Galwaf Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru i drefn.

The Presiding Officer: Good afternoon. I call the National Assembly for Wales to order.

The Presiding Officer: It is my sad duty today to ask you to stand and observe a minute’s silence in memory of Gary Speed, who had great success and popularity as an international football player and more recently as the successful manager of the Welsh football team.

Y Llywydd: Fy nyletswydd drist heddiw yw gofyn ichi sefyll am funud o dawelwch er cof am Gary Speed, a gafodd lwyddiant a phoblogrwydd mawr fel chwaraewr pêl-droed rhyngwladol ac yn fwy diweddar fel rheolwr llwyddiannus tîm pêl-droed Cymru.

The First Minister: We are pleased that the M4 was mentioned, because I have raised the issue several times with the Prime Minister. I am glad it has been recognised. We wait to see the full scale of the consequential, but we expect it to be around the £300 million mark.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr ydym yn falch y soniwyd am yr M4, oherwydd codais y mater sawl gwaith gyda Phrif Weinidog y DU. Yr wyf yn falch ei bod wedi’i chydnabod. Rydym yn aros i weld y swm canlyniadol llawn, ond rydym yn disgwyl iddo fod o gwmpas £300 miliwn.

Vaughan Gething: First Minister, during what is undoubtedly a difficult economic period, it is vital that we continue to support our businesses in Wales. I welcome a number of our initiatives, including Business Advice Week. Can you confirm whether the Government is looking at simplifying the sources of business support and advice to make them easier to understand and access?

Vaughan Gething: Brif Weinidog, yn ystod cyfnod economaidd sy’n sicr yn anodd, mae’n hanfodol ein bod yn parhau i gefnogi ein busnesau yng Nghymru. Croesawaf nifer o’n mentrau, gan gynnwys Wythnos Cyngor i Fusnesau. A allwch chi gadarnhau p’un a yw’r Llywodraeth yn edrych ar symleiddio’r ffynonellau cymorth a chyngor busnes i’w gwneud yn haws i ddeall ac i gael mynediad atynt?

The First Minister: Yes, we are. It is important that businesses are able to access advice in as seamless a way as possible. I know that the Minister for Business, Enterprise, Technology and Science is keen to ensure that we have a system of business support that is as easy to access as possible.

Y Prif Weinidog: Ydym. Mae’n bwysig bod busnesau’n gallu cael cyngor mewn ffordd mor ddi-dor â phosibl. Gwn fod y Gweinidog Busnes, Menter, Technoleg a Gwyddoniaeth yn awyddus i sicrhau bod gennym system cymorth busnes mor hawdd â phosibl.

Alun Ffred Jones: Mae rhyddhad ardrethi busnes yn un ffordd o roi cymorth uniongyrchol i fusnesau llai, ac mae’r Llywodraeth wedi sefydlu ymchwiliad i hyn o dan gadeiryddiaeth yr Athro Brian Morgan. Os bydd yr Athro Morgan yn dod allan o blaid y cynllun presennol ac yn credu y dylai gael ei ehangu, a fydd y Llywodraeth yn ymateb yn gadarnhaol i’r argymhelliad hwnnw?

Alun Ffred Jones: Business rate relief is one way of giving direct assistance to smaller businesses, and the Government has established an inquiry under the chairmanship of Professor Brian Morgan. If Professor Morgan comes out in favour of the current scheme and believes that it should be enhanced and extended, will the Government reply positively to that recommendation?

Y Prif Weinidog: Ynghylch yr hyn a ddywedodd y Canghellor yn gynharach am ardrethi busnes, yr ydym yn edrych i ehangu rhyddhad ardrethi busnes yng Nghymru yn ystod yr un amser ag y bydd help gydag ardrethi busnes ar gael yn Lloegr.

The First Minister: In terms of the Chancellor’s comments earlier on business rates, we are looking to ensure that business rate relief is extended in Wales at the same time as business rates assistance is available in England.

Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Arweinwyr y Pleidiau

Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders

The Leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats (Kirsty Williams): First Minister, Wales spends more per head on the NHS than England, but we put up with longer waiting times, slower ambulance response times and lower standards of cancer screening. Do you agree with me that it is time we made our money work harder? Last week, I asked you to take action to address vacant posts among doctors; when will you bring forward those proposals?

Arweinydd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru (Kirsty Williams): Brif Weinidog, mae Cymru’n gwario mwy y pen ar y GIG nag yw Lloegr, ond rydym yn dygymod ag amseroedd aros hirach, amseroedd ymateb ambiwlans arafach a safonau is ym maes sgrinio am ganser. A ydych chi’n cytuno â mi ei bod yn bryd inni wneud i’n harian weithio’n galetach? Yr wythnos diwethaf, gofynnais i chi gymryd camau i fynd i’r afael â swyddi gwag ymysg meddygon; pryd fyddwch chi’n cyflwyno’r cynigion hynny?

The First Minister: We will bring forward the recruitment campaign in the early part of next year. That would be helped by a review of immigration policy. We are not having the doctors arriving in Wales that we used to, because immigration policy is too strict. Over the weekend, I was stunned to hear the UK Minister for immigration suggesting that it was a good thing that fewer student and work visas were being issued. I cannot understand how that can be seen as anything other than a drain on our economy.

Y Prif Weinidog: Byddwn yn cyflwyno ymgyrch recriwtio yn gynnar y flwyddyn nesaf. Byddai adolygiad o’r polisi mewnfudo yn helpu hynny. Nid yw meddygon yn dod i Gymru fel yr oeddent gan fod y polisi mewnfudo’n rhy llym. Dros y penwythnos, fe’m synnwyd gan Weinidog y DU dros fewnfudo o’i glywed yn awgrymu ei bod yn beth da y rhoddwyd llai o fisâu myfyrwyr a gwaith. Ni allaf ddeall sut y gellir gweld hynny yn unrhyw beth heblaw treth ar ein heconomi.

Kirsty Williams: As I pointed out last week, those vacancies mean a reduced service for patients, but they also mean that the NHS is wasting money it does not need to. Therefore, we need some urgency in your bringing forward of these plans. The Welsh NHS spends, on average, £12 million a year on locum hospital doctors. I congratulate you on having the foresight to put aside party tribalism and adopt the Welsh Liberal Democrat proposals for a pupil premium and, in that spirit, I suggest another idea: is it not time to set up a locum bank for doctors to save the money currently being spent on hiring locums?

Kirsty Williams: Fel y nodais yr wythnos diwethaf, mae’r swyddi gwag hynny’n golygu llai o wasanaeth i gleifion, ond mae hefyd yn golygu bod y GIG yn gwastraffu arian yn ddiangen. Felly, mae angen rhywfaint o frys wrth ichi fwrw ymlaen â’r cynlluniau hyn. Ar gyfartaledd, mae GIG Cymru yn gwario £12 miliwn y flwyddyn ar feddygon ysbyty locwm. Hoffwn eich llongyfarch ar fod yn ddigon craff i roi llwytholdeb pleidiol o’r neilltu ac i fabwysiadu cynigion y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru ar gyfer premiwm disgybl ac, yn yr ysbryd hwnnw, awgrymaf syniad arall: onid yw’n amser i sefydlu banc locwm ar gyfer meddygon i arbed yr arian a warir ar hyn o bryd ar gyflogi staff locwm?

The First Minister: There has been an increase in staff working in the NHS since 2007, including 222 more consultants. There is a UK-wide shortage of doctors in some specialities, and we in Wales are not immune to that. Of course, we want to ensure that Wales has the appropriate skill mix of staff to meet the fluctuating demand, and we are working with the British Medical Association to show that Wales is an attractive place to live and work for doctors.

Y Prif Weinidog: Bu cynnydd yn y staff sy’n gweithio yn y GIG ers 2007, gan gynnwys 222 yn rhagor o ymgynghorwyr. Mae prinder meddygon mewn rhai meysydd arbenigol ledled y DU, ac nid ydym ni yng Nghymru’n imiwn i hynny. Wrth gwrs, rydym am sicrhau bod gan Gymru’r cymysgedd priodol o sgiliau staff i ateb y galw cyfnewidiol, ac yr ydym yn gweithio gyda Chymdeithas Feddygol Prydain i ddangos i feddygon fod Cymru’n lle deniadol i fyw ac i weithio ynddo.

Kirsty Williams: I hope that you will look at the idea of creating a locum bank for doctors. I will give another example of smarter spending. It costs the NHS £35 for every GP appointment, but half that cost, £17, for every community pharmacy appointment. If patients with minor ailments were able to be seen by their pharmacist instead of their GP, up to £30 million could be saved each year. What will you do to encourage better use of community pharmacies?

Kirsty Williams: Yr wyf yn gobeithio y byddwch yn edrych ar y syniad o greu banc locwm ar gyfer meddygon. Rhoddaf enghraifft arall o wario’n ddoethach. Mae’n costio £35 i’r GIG am bob apwyntiad gyda meddyg teulu, ond hanner y gost honno, £17, am bob apwyntiad gyda fferyllydd cymunedol. Pe bai cleifion â mân anhwylderau’n gallu cael eu gweld gan eu fferyllydd yn lle eu meddyg teulu, gellid arbed hyd at £30 miliwn bob blwyddyn. Beth a wnewch chi i annog gwell defnydd o fferyllfeydd cymunedol?

The First Minister: Many community pharmacies are already doing this. I have certainly seen many that offer appointments and consulting rooms in a way that was not there two or three years ago. People will want to get advice from their pharmacists where they can, rather than making a doctor’s appointment. Of course, one of the areas that we continue to be vigilant about is the issue of people not turning up to GP appointments. That still causes problems, not just financially, but in terms of a waste of doctors’ time.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae llawer o fferyllfeydd cymunedol eisoes yn gwneud hyn. Rwyf i’n sicr wedi gweld sawl un sy’n cynnig apwyntiadau ac ystafelloedd ymgynghori mewn ffordd nad oedd yno ddwy neu dair blynedd yn ôl. Bydd pobl yn dymuno cael cyngor gan eu fferyllwyr lle y gallant, yn hytrach na gwneud apwyntiad i weld meddyg. Wrth gwrs, un o’r meysydd rydym yn parhau i fod yn wyliadwrus yn ei gylch yw pobl nad ydynt yn cadw eu hapwyntiadau meddygon teulu. Mae hynny’n dal i achosi problemau, nid yn unig yn ariannol, ond o ran gwastraff amser meddygon.

The Leader of the Opposition (Andrew R.T. Davies): Last week, First Minister, I raised with you the issue of waiting times in our local health boards’ accident and emergency departments. You said at that point that you did not recognise the figures that I put to you, but those were the figures that were taken from the Statistics Wales website, which is your Government’s website. Since last week, we have also had the most up-to-date figures on accident and emergency waiting times, which can be compared with the Government’s target of four hours or less. Those figures show that only 89 per cent of people are seen within this time, against a Government target of 95 per cent for accident and emergency departments. This week, can you please answer the question regarding the action that your Government is taking to improve the experience for clinicians and for the patients who attend accident and emergency departments?

Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid (Andrew R.T. Davies): Yr wythnos diwethaf, Brif Weinidog, codais gyda chi bwnc amseroedd aros mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys ein byrddau iechyd lleol. Dywedasoch bryd hynny nad oeddech yn cydnabod y ffigurau a roddais i chi, ond roedd rheini’n ffigurau ar wefan Ystadegau Cymru, sef gwefan eich Llywodraeth. Ers yr wythnos diwethaf, yr ydym hefyd wedi cael ffigurau mwyaf diweddar adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys ar amseroedd aros, y gellir eu cymharu â tharged y Llywodraeth o bedair awr neu lai. Mae’r ffigurau hynny’n dangos mai dim ond 89 y cant o bobl sy’n cael eu gweld o fewn yr amser hwn, yn erbyn targed y Llywodraeth o 95 y cant ar gyfer adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys. Yr wythnos hon, a allwch chi ateb y cwestiwn ynghylch y camau y mae’ch Llywodraeth yn eu cymryd i wella’r profiad i glinigwyr ac i’r cleifion sy’n mynd i adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys?

The First Minister: We will continue to encourage people to use out-of-hours GP services, because we know that many people who go to accident and emergency departments do not need to do so. We will also continue to be vigilant to ensure that the natural spike in attendance at accident and emergency departments at this time of year is reduced.

Y Prif Weinidog: Byddwn yn parhau i annog pobl i ddefnyddio gwasanaethau meddygon teulu y tu allan i oriau, oherwydd gwyddom nad yw nifer o’r bobl sy’n mynd i adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys angen gwneud hynny. Byddwn hefyd yn parhau i fod yn wyliadwrus er mwyn sicrhau bod y cynnydd naturiol yn nifer y bobl sy’n mynd i adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys yr adeg hon o’r flwyddyn yn cael ei leihau.

Andrew R.T. Davies: First Minister, we are looking at the figures for September and October, so the winter pressures have not come into play in relation to waiting times at accident and emergency departments at the moment. However, I would like to move on to discuss procurement costs, which I asked you about some two weeks ago. I highlighted to you the cost to businesses of bidding for Assembly Government contracts, which is in the region of £20 million. Once again, this is a Government figure that was put forward by the efficiency and innovation board procurement task force in February 2011. Therefore, this was your taskforce, which was set up by your Government. What action is your Government taking to make it easier for local firms to bid for Welsh Government contracts?

Andrew R.T. Davies: Brif Weinidog, rydym yn edrych ar y ffigurau ar gyfer mis Medi a mis Hydref, felly nid ydym eto’n gweld y pwysau gaeafol mewn perthynas ag amseroedd aros mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys. Fodd bynnag, hoffwn symud ymlaen i drafod costau caffael, y gofynnais i chi amdanynt ryw bythefnos yn ôl. Tynnais eich sylw at y gost i fusnesau o geisio am gontractau Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, sydd tua £20 miliwn. Unwaith eto, mae hwn yn ffigur Llywodraeth a gyflwynwyd gan dasglu caffael y bwrdd effeithlonrwydd ac arloesi ym mis Chwefror 2011. Felly, hwn oedd eich tasglu chi, a sefydlwyd gan eich Llywodraeth chi. Pa gamau y mae’ch Llywodraeth yn eu cymryd i’w gwneud yn haws i gwmnïau lleol geisio am gontractau Llywodraeth Cymru?

The First Minister: We have had a number of procurement initiatives over the years. This is a matter that was raised at the last meeting of the council for economic renewal some two weeks ago. It is a matter that we are taking into consideration to improve the procurement process for local companies.

Y Prif Weinidog: Cawsom nifer o fentrau caffael dros y blynyddoedd. Mae hwn yn fater a godwyd yng nghyfarfod diwethaf cyngor adnewyddu’r economi rhyw bythefnos yn ôl. Mae’n fater yr ydym yn ei ystyried er mwyn gwella’r broses caffael i gwmnïau lleol.

Andrew R.T. Davies: I am sure that businesses will breathe a deep sigh of relief when they hear what action is being taken by your Government. However, I have given you two examples where, in the last couple of weeks, you have stated that you do not recognise the figures that I have put to you. Over the summer term, your Members and your Government called for £42 billion of protected spending from Westminster on a host of policy areas. Do you not think that it is now time for your Government to start acting like a Government and take the lead so that businesses can actively engage with the Welsh Government, and so that patients and clinicians within the health service can get the standard of treatment that is set out in the targets of your Government?

Andrew R.T. Davies: Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd yn rhyddhad mawr i fusnesau pan fyddant yn clywed pa gamau y mae’ch Llywodraeth yn eu cymryd. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf wedi rhoi dwy enghraifft ichi lle, yn yr wythnosau diwethaf, rydych chi wedi dweud nad ydych yn cydnabod y ffigurau a roddais i chi. Dros dymor yr haf, galwodd eich Aelodau a’ch Llywodraeth am £42 biliwn o wariant gwarchodedig gan San Steffan ar lu o feysydd polisi. Oni chredwch ei bod yn bryd i’ch Llywodraeth ddechrau ymddwyn fel Llywodraeth a chymryd yr awenau fel y gall busnesau ymgysylltu â Llywodraeth Cymru, ac fel y gall cleifion a chlinigwyr yn y gwasanaeth iechyd gael triniaeth o’r safon a nodir yn nhargedau’ch Llywodraeth?

The First Minister: I note that the UK Government has taken up our idea on the jobs fund and it has announced today that it wishes to build on our idea of Flying Start. We are quite happy for the UK Government to take our ideas where we have good ideas. However, let me put a figure to the leader of the opposition that he refuses constantly to recognise, namely the fact that his party’s former leader said that he wished to cut education spending in Wales by 20 per cent. That was announced live on Wales Today. He is in blatant denial. I know that it is a bitter pill for him to swallow, but the reality is that he will not recognise—[Interruption.] There is no point shouting, because he just plays up to his reputation when he shouts of not being able to debate properly. However, the reality is that that was the figure—[Interruption.]

Y Prif Weinidog: Sylwaf fod Llywodraeth y DU wedi cymryd ein syniad am gronfa swyddi ac wedi cyhoeddi heddiw ei bod am adeiladu ar ein syniad o Dechrau’n Deg. Yr ydym yn eithaf bodlon i Lywodraeth y DU gymryd ein syniadau lle mae gennym syniadau da. Fodd bynnag, gadewch imi roi ffigur i arweinydd yr wrthblaid y mae’n gyson yn gwrthod ei gydnabod, sef y ffaith y dywedodd cyn-arweinydd ei blaid ei fod yn dymuno torri gwariant ar addysg yng Nghymru gan 20 y cant. Cyhoeddwyd hynny’n fyw ar Wales Today. Mae e’n gwadu yn ddigywilydd. Gwn ei fod yn bilsen chwerw iddo ei llyncu, ond y realiti yw na fydd ef yn cydnabod—[Torri ar draws.] Nid oes unrhyw bwynt gweiddi, oherwydd dim ond chwarae i’w enw o beidio â gallu dadlau’n briodol y mae’n ei wneud pan mae’n gweiddi. Fodd bynnag, y realiti yw mai dyna oedd y ffigur—[Torri ar draws.]

The Presiding Officer: Order.

Y Llywydd: Trefn.

The First Minister: That was the figure that his leader announced in the run-up to the last election. He refuses to recognise that figure, despite the fact that it was announced live on television, and he will not distance himself from that figure. We know, for example, that when it comes to student fees, the reason why student fees and the money that we are contributing to student fees would not be affordable in Wales if he was in government is because of the 20 per cent cuts that he wants to impose.

Y Prif Weinidog: Hwnnw oedd y ffigur a gyhoeddwyd gan ei arweinydd yn y cyfnod cyn yr etholiad diwethaf. Mae’n gwrthod cydnabod y ffigur hwnnw, er gwaethaf y ffaith y’i cyhoeddwyd yn fyw ar y teledu, ac nid yw’n ymbellhau oddi wrth y ffigur hwnnw. Gwyddom, er enghraifft, pan ddaw hi i ffïoedd myfyrwyr, y rheswm na fyddai ffïoedd myfyrwyr a’r arian yr ydym yn cyfrannu tuag atynt yn fforddiadwy yng Nghymru pe bai yntau mewn llywodraeth yw’r toriadau o 20 y cant y mae ef am eu gwneud.

Arweinydd Plaid Cymru (Ieuan Wyn Jones): Mae’r Sefydliad ar gyfer Cydweithrediad a Datblygiad Economaidd yn darogan y bydd economi’r Deyrnas Gyfunol mewn dirwasgiad yn chwarter cyntaf y flwyddyn nesaf. Mae’n dweud na fydd yr economi yn tyfu mwy na 0.5 y cant drwy gydol y flwyddyn nesaf. Y tebygrwydd ydy, gyda’r math hwnnw o ffigurau, y bydd economi Cymru mewn dirwasgiad am gyfnod tipyn yn hwy. Mae’r sefydliad hefyd yn darogan y gallai diweithdra yng Nghymru godi i 10 y cant erbyn 2013. Yr wyf wedi clywed heddiw eich bod wedi dweud bod angen i Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Gyfunol newid cwrs, ac yr wyf yn cytuno gyda chi. Fodd bynnag, a ydych chi’n fodlon newid cwrs? Os ydych chi, ym mha ffordd?

The Leader of Plaid Cymru (Ieuan Wyn Jones): The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development is predicting that the United Kingdom economy will be in recession in the first quarter of next year. It states that the economy will not grow more than 0.5 per cent throughout next year. The likelihood, with that kind of figure, is that the Welsh economy will be in recession for a far longer period. The OECD also predicts that unemployment in Wales could rise to 10 per cent by 2013. I have heard today that you are saying that the UK Government needs to change course, and I agree with you. However, are you willing to change course? If so, how?

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr unig syniad y mae Plaid Cymru wedi dod ag ef i’r Cynulliad ac i bobl Cymru yw darparu help gydag ardrethi busnes, a dim byd arall. Ni chafodd unrhyw beth arall ei drafod dros yr wythnosau diwethaf. Dyna oedd y pecyn cyfyng a roddwyd gerbron pobl Cymru gan Blaid Cymru. Y realiti yw inni wneud datganiad ddoe o £38.9 miliwn i helpu economi Cymru, a bydd datganiad arall ar ôl i ni gysylltu â’r Rhyddfrydwyr er mwyn sicrhau ym mha ffordd y byddwn yn gwario’r arian y byddwn yn ei gael o achos datganiad y Canghellor heddiw.

The First Minister: The only idea that Plaid Cymru has brought forward to the Assembly and the people of Wales is assistance with business rates, and nothing else. No other option was discussed in the past few weeks. That was the limited package put before the people of Wales by Plaid Cymru. The reality is that we made a statement yesterday about £38.9 million to help the Welsh economy, and another statement will be made after we have discussed with the Liberals how we will spend the money that will come as a result of the Chancellor’s statement today.

1.45 p.m.

Ieuan Wyn Jones: Nid Plaid Cymru sydd mewn Llywodraeth ar hyn o bryd—chi sydd mewn Llywodraeth, ac felly mae’n rhaid i chi ateb y cwestiynau o safbwynt yr hyn mae eich Llywodraeth yn ei wneud. Nid yw’n wir dweud mai’r unig beth yr oeddem wedi gofyn amdano yw ardrethi busnes. Yr oeddem wedi gofyn am arian cyfalaf i helpu’r economi, arian ar gyfer y parthau buddsoddi yng Nghymru, arian i helpu diwydiant, ac arian i’w roi ar gyfer sgiliau i bobl ifanc—mae un o bob pedwar o bobl ifanc allan o waith. Y realiti yw, Brif Weinidog, ei bod yn ddigon hawdd i chi ofyn i Lywodraeth Llundain newid cwrs, ond nid ydych yn fodlon newid cwrs o gwbl.

Ieuan Wyn Jones: Plaid Cymru is not in Government at present—you are in Government, so you have to answer questions in terms of what your Government is doing. It is not true to say that all we had requested was on business rates. We had asked for capital funds to assist the economy, funds for the enterprise zones in Wales, funds to assist industry, and funds for the skills of young people—one in four of whom is out of work. The reality, First Minister, is that it is easy enough for you to ask the London Government to change course, but that you are not willing to change course at all.

Mae gennyf gwestiwn penodol i chi ar ddatganiad George Osborne heddiw. Mae’n dweud—ac yr ydym wedi clywed yr ateb yr ydych wedi ei roi i Nick Ramsay—fod £5 biliwn wedi cael ei gyhoeddi mewn arian cyfalaf. Yr ydych yn dweud mai eich siâr chi o hwnnw yw £300 miliwn. Wrth gwrs, yr ydym i gyd yn gwybod, os mai’r M4 yw’r cynllun, yr oedd hwnnw’n costio £1 biliwn. O ble y mae’r £700 miliwn arall yn dod?

I have a specific question on George Osborne’s statement today. He says—and we heard the reply that you gave to Nick Ramsay—that £5 billion has been announced in capital spending. You say that your share of that is £300 million. Of course, we all know that if the plan is to work on the M4, the cost will be £1 billion. Where is the other £700 million coming from?

Y Prif Weinidog: Dyna’r arian yr ydym yn erfyn ei gael, wrth gwrs. Clywais George Osborne yn dweud ei fod am weithio gyda ni fel Llywodraeth er mwyn delifro ar yr M4. Fel y dywedais, nid yw’r hyn a ddywedodd arweinydd Plaid Cymru yn iawn. Yr unig beth a chanddo ffigurau y daeth arweinydd Plaid Cymru i siarad â ni amdano oedd help gyda ardrethi busnes. Yr wyf yn ddigon hapus i wneud yr e-byst yn gyhoeddus: a wnewch yr un peth?

The First Minister: That is the money that we expect to receive, of course. I heard George Osborne saying that he wanted to work with us as a Government in order to deliver on the M4. As I said, what the leader of Plaid Cymru says is not correct. The only thing with figures attached that the leader of Plaid Cymru brought to us was assistance with business rates. I am quite happy to make the e-mails public: will you do the same?

Ieuan Wyn Jones: Wrth gwrs yr wyf yn hapus iawn i wneud popeth yr ydym wedi’i wneud yn gyhoeddus, ond chwarae plant yw hyn, Brif Weinidog. Mae economi Cymru’n gwaedu, gydag un o bob pedwar o bobl ifanc Cymru allan o waith, a’ch ymateb chi yn ei gyfanrwydd yw cynnig rhyddhau e-bost gan arweinydd Plaid Cymru. Gadewch i ni aros mewn realiti—mae economi Cymru ar ei chefn ac yr ydych wedi dweud heddiw nad ydych yn fodlon gwneud dim am hynny. Beth mae hynny’n ei ddweud am flaenoriaethau Llafur yng Nghymru? Brif Weinidog, atebwch y cwestiwn.

Ieuan Wyn Jones: Of course, I am very happy to make everything that we have done public, but this is child’s play, First Minister. The Welsh economy is haemorrhaging, with one in four young people in Wales out of work, and your only response is to release an e-mail from the leader of Plaid Cymru. Let us take a reality check—the Welsh economy is on its knees and you have said today that you are not willing to do anything about that. What does that say about the priorities of Labour in Wales? First Minister, answer the question.

Y Prif Weinidog: Dyna beth yw chwarae plant bach. Y realiti yw inni wneud datganiad ddoe a bydd datganiad arall ynglŷn â’r £300 miliwn. Cafwyd datganiad yr wythnos cyn hynny ynglŷn â £90 miliwn o arian cyfalaf. Beth sydd gan Blaid Cymru i’w gynnig? Dim. Nid oes ganddo ond un syniad, a hwnnw wedi dod o’r Alban. Felly, nid syniad Plaid Cymru oedd hwnnw. Mae’n bwysig dros ben bod gennym gytundeb ar y gyllideb, ond mae’r un mor bwysig bod gan bleidiau syniadau i symud Cymru ymlaen, yn lle bod eu tanc o syniadau’n wag.

The First Minister: That is child’s play. The reality is that we made a statement yesterday and that another statement will be made about the £300 million. There was a statement the week before that on £90 million in capital funding. What does Plaid Cymru have to offer? Nothing. It has only one idea, which comes from Scotland. Therefore, it was not Plaid Cymru’s idea. It is vital that we have agreement on the budget, but it is just as important that parties have ideas in order to move Wales forward, rather than have a tank that is empty of ideas.

The First Minister: No-one is suggesting the downgrading of any district general hospital. If you look at Bronglais hospital, you will see that it is almost surrounded by building cranes. That is because of the investment that has been put into the hospital. Is that the sign of a hospital being downgraded?

Y Prif Weinidog: Nid oes neb yn awgrymu israddio unrhyw ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth. Os edrychwch ar ysbyty Bronglais, byddwch yn gweld ei fod bron wedi’i hamgylchynu gan graeniau adeiladu. Mae hynny oherwydd y buddsoddiad sydd wedi’i wneud yn yr ysbyty. A yw hynny’n arwydd o ysbyty yn cael ei hisraddio?

Peter Black: First Minister, given the proposed reconfiguration of the health service as put forward by the Minister and local health boards, it is more important than ever to achieve the necessary joint working between health and social services, not just to drive up efficiencies, but also to ensure that patients and people who are being treated in their own homes have the best possible care in the best possible environment. What specific plans do you have to drive that agenda forward?

Peter Black: Brif Weinidog, o ystyried ad-drefnu arfaethedig y gwasanaeth iechyd fel a gyflwynwyd gan y Gweinidog a’r byrddau iechyd lleol, mae’n bwysicach nag erioed i gynnal gwaith angenrheidiol ar y cyd rhwng y gwasanaethau iechyd a chymdeithasol, nid yn unig i wella effeithlonrwydd, ond hefyd i sicrhau bod cleifion a phobl sy’n cael eu trin yn eu cartrefi eu hunain yn cael y gofal gorau posibl yn yr amgylchedd gorau posibl. Pa gynlluniau penodol sydd gennych i yrru’r agenda hwnnw yn ei flaen?

The First Minister: We have taken forward a number of initiatives to ensure that there is a more seamless transfer of people between hospitals and their homes. There will be scope in the social services Bill to see how that process might be improved.

Y Prif Weinidog: Rydym wedi datblygu nifer o fentrau i sicrhau y gellir trosglwyddo pobl yn fwy esmwyth rhwng ysbytai a’u cartrefi. Bydd cyfle yn y Bil gwasanaethau cymdeithasol i weld sut y gellid gwella’r broses honno.

Jenny Rathbone: While I am aware that the recent E. coli-related deaths of people in Singleton Hospital were not related to food hygiene, in the minds of ordinary people it raises the issue of E. coli poisoning when they eat out. What plans does the First Minister have to bring forward the scores on the doors legislation, which would reassure people?

Jenny Rathbone: Er fy mod yn ymwybodol nad oedd y marwolaethau diweddar yn Ysbyty Singleton, a oedd yn gysylltiedig ag E. coli, yn ymwneud â hylendid bwyd, mae gwenwyn E. Coli yn dod i feddwl pobl gyffredin pan fyddant yn bwyta allan. Pa gynlluniau sydd gan y Prif Weinidog i gyflwyno’r ddeddfwriaeth sgoriau ar y drysau, a fyddai’n tawelu meddyliau pobl? 

The First Minister: We intend to consult on the introduction of the food hygiene rating Bill next month. On top of that, I have asked the Food Standards Agency to review food law enforcement by local authorities in Wales, and I expect the addendum to the report to be delivered to me shortly.

Y Prif Weinidog: Rydym yn bwriadu ymgynghori ar gyflwyno’r Bil sgorio hylendid bwyd mis nesaf. Ar ben hynny, yr gofynnais i’r Asiantaeth Safonau Bwyd adolygu’r broses gorfodi cyfraith bwyd gan awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru, a disgwyliaf yr atodiad i’r adroddiad gael ei ddanfon i mi cyn bo hir.

Mohammad Asghar: First Minister, a third of Welsh children are overweight or obese, which is dreadful news. The British Medical Journal has said that rising levels of obesity could bankrupt the NHS. Will your Government pledge to introduce an annual public health campaign to specifically tackle these serious issues? First Minister, are you confident that levels of childhood obesity in Wales will fall under your administration during the fourth Assembly?

Mohammad Asghar: Brif Weinidog, mae traean o blant Cymru dros eu pwysau neu’n ordew, sy’n newyddion ofnadwy. Mae’r British Medical Journal wedi dweud y gallai’r cynnydd cyson mewn gordewdra yrru’r GIG i’r wal. A wnaiff eich Llywodraeth addo cyflwyno ymgyrch iechyd cyhoeddus flynyddol i fynd i’r afael yn benodol â’r materion difrifol hyn? Brif Weinidog, a ydych yn hyderus y bydd lefelau gordewdra ymhlith plant yng Nghymru yn cwympo yn ystod eich gweinyddiaeth chi yn y Pedwerydd Cynulliad?

The First Minister: When it comes to children, we have healthy free breakfasts in schools and we have seen the expansion of community food co-operatives, which make it easier for people to eat healthily and get their five a day of fruit and vegetables. When it comes to exercise, we have invested in free swimming at local authority swimming pools at weekends and during school holidays for those under 16. We continue to ensure that while children are in school, at least, they are able to eat healthily to make sure that obesity declines in years to come.

Y Prif Weinidog: Pan ddaw i blant, mae gennym frecwast iach am ddim mewn ysgolion, ac rydym wedi gweld mentrau cydweithredol bwyd cymunedol yn ehangu, sy’n ei gwneud yn haws i bobl fwyta’n iach ac i gael eu pump y dydd o ffrwythau a llysiau. Pan ddaw i ymarfer corff, rydym wedi buddsoddi mewn nofio am ddim mewn pyllau nofio awdurdodau lleol ar benwythnosau ac yng gwyliau’r ysgol i’r rhai o dan 16 oed. Rydym yn parhau i sicrhau, tra bod plant yn yr ysgol, o leiaf, eu bod yn gallu bwyta’n iach er mwyn sicrhau bod gordewdra yn lleihau yn y blynyddoedd i ddod.

William Powell: First Minister, despite the level of building activity currently under way at Bronglais Hospital, a series of services have been withdrawn from there over the past few years. The most recent, which caused considerable concern back in September, was the withdrawal of the maxillofacial clinic, which had been operating there since the 1980s and had been routinely recognising early signs of oral cancer cases. Do you agree that it is important that, in considering its forward plan, the Hywel Dda Local Health Board should take account of patients in the south Gwynedd and western Powys areas, as well as listening to local residents in the Ceredigion area, as the Member for Ceredigion said?

William Powell: Brif Weinidog, er gwaethaf prysurdeb y gweithgarwch adeiladu ar hyn o bryd yn Ysbyty Bronglais, mae nifer o wasanaethau wedi eu tynnu oddi yno dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Y mwyaf diweddar, a achosodd gryn bryder yn ôl ym mis Medi, oedd  tynnu clinig y genau a’r wyneb, a fu yno ers y 1980au ac a oedd fel mater o drefn yn adnabod arwyddion cynnar o achosion canser y geg. A ydych yn cytuno ei bod yn bwysig, wrth ystyried ei blaengynllun, bod Bwrdd Iechyd Lleol Hywel Dda yn ystyried cleifion yn ardaloedd de Gwynedd a gorllewin Powys, yn ogystal â gwrando ar drigolion lleol yn ardal Ceredigion, fel y dywedodd yr Aelod dros Geredigion?

The First Minister: Bronglais Hospital covers a large area, and I am sure that the LHB will be considering the services that need to be provided there. There has often been an issue in hospitals further west for many years where a consultant may retire and it becomes exceptionally difficult to recruit someone in that consultant’s place, which is why we are launching the campaign to attract more doctors into Wales to overcome this historic problem of medical practitioners being reluctant to cross the Loughor, if I can put it that way; we need to deal with that.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae Ysbyty Bronglais yn cwmpasu ardal fawr, ac yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd y BILl yn ystyried y gwasanaethau sydd angen eu darparu yno. Bu problem yn aml mewn ysbytai ymhellach draw i’r gorllewin ers blynyddoedd lawer lle gall ymgynghorydd ymddeol ac mae’n eithriadol o anodd recriwtio rhywun yn eu lle, a dyna pam yr ydym yn lansio ymgyrch i ddenu mwy o feddygon i Gymru i oresgyn y broblem hanesyddol hon, sef bod meddygon yn amharod i groesi’r afon Llwchwr, os gallaf ei roi felly; mae angen inni ddelio â hynny.

2.00 p.m.

Mark Isherwood: What action is the Welsh Government taking, or can it take, to meet the suggestion in the Sayce review into employment services for disabled people that Remploy employees should be offered expert entrepreneurial and business support to develop their businesses, where possible?

Mark Isherwood: Pa gamau mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd, neu y gallai eu cymryd, i gyd-fynd â’r awgrym yn adolygiad Sayce i wasanaethau cyflogaeth i bobl anabl y dylid cynnig cefnogaeth entrepreneuraidd arbenigol a chymorth busnes i weithwyr Remploy ddatblygu eu busnesau, lle y bo’n bosibl?

The First Minister: That is code for, ‘We want to shut the Remploy factories down’. Offering business support to employees means, ‘We’re going to sack you; set up your own businesses’. We would rather see the Remploy factories stay open.

Y Prif Weinidog: Dyna ffordd arall o ddweud, ‘Yr ydym am gau ffatrïoedd Remploy’. Mae cynnig cymorth busnes i weithwyr yn golygu, ‘Rydym yn mynd i’ch diswyddo; sefydlwch eich busnesau eich hunain’. Byddai’n well gennym weld ffatrïoedd Remploy yn aros ar agor.

Leanne Wood: First Minister, I too recently visited the Remploy factory in Porth, and was told quite clearly that, if the factory secured the public procurement contract with Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council, the business would be viable. In reality, public sector sales for Remploy in Wales have reduced by two thirds in the last three years. Can you update us on what discussions you have undertaken recently to secure the future of Remploy and, specifically, what you can do to ensure that Remploy has access to public contracts to secure its long-term viability?

Leanne Wood: Brif Weinidog, ymwelais â ffatri Remploy yn y Porth yn ddiweddar hefyd, a dywedwyd wrthyf yn gwbl glir, pe bai’r ffatri yn sicrhau contract caffael cyhoeddus gyda Chyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Rhondda Cynon Taf, byddai’r busnes yn hyfyw. Mewn gwirionedd, mae gwerthiant sector cyhoeddus ar gyfer Remploy yng Nghymru wedi gostwng dwy ran o dair yn y tair blynedd diwethaf. A allwch ein diweddaru ar ba drafodaethau a gawsoch yn ddiweddar i sicrhau dyfodol Remploy ac, yn benodol, beth y gallwch ei wneud i sicrhau bod mynediad gan Remploy i gontractau cyhoeddus i warchod ei hyfywedd hirdymor?

The First Minister: I refer you to the point that I made earlier to the Member for Pontypridd. In addition, I raised the issue with the Secretary of State in a meeting with her and asked her to consider the mechanics of the financing of Remploy being devolved. I have not had a response yet.

Y Prif Weinidog: Fe’ch cyfeiriaf at y pwynt a wneuthum yn gynharach i’r Aelod dros Bontypridd. Yn ogystal, cododd y mater gyda’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol mewn cyfarfod â hi, a gofynnais iddi ystyried datganoli’r ffordd y caiff Remploy ei ariannu. Nid wyf wedi cael ymateb eto.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas:  Brif Weinidog, ategaf yr hyn yr ydych wedi ei ddweud am gyflog rhanbarthol a datganiad George Osborne rhyw awr yn ôl ar y mater hwn. Bydd hyn yn arwain at gyflogau is yn y sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru a bydd hynny’n golygu bod effaith costau byw a’r cynnydd ynddynt gymaint â hynny yn fwy yng Nghymru. Fel y Llywodraeth a ddywedodd wrth bobl Cymru yn yr etholiad diwethaf eich bod yn mynd i’w hamddiffyn rhag y toriadau a fyddai’n dod oddi wrth y glymblaid yn San Steffan, beth yr ydych yn mynd i’w wneud i sicrhau nad yw’r bobl yr effeithir arnynt gan gyflog rhanbarthol yn dioddef mwy yng Nghymru na phobl mewn rhannau eraill o’r Deyrnas Unedig?

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: First Minister, I endorse what you have said about regional pay and George Osborne’s statement on it about an hour ago. This will lead to lower wages in the public sector in Wales, meaning that the impact of living costs and the increase in those living costs will be so much greater in Wales. As the Government that told the people of Wales in the last election that it would protect them from the cuts that would come from the Westminster coalition, what are you going to do to ensure that the people who will be affected by regional pay will not suffer more in Wales than those in other parts of the United Kingdom?

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae’n bwysig iawn ein bod wedi cael mwy o arian, arian cyfalaf yn arbennig, ond yr ofn yw y bydd pobl yn talu amdano mewn rhyw ffordd neu’i gilydd. Mae hynny’n golygu mai doctoriaid, nyrsys a gweithwyr cymdeithasol a fydd yn gweld toriadau yn eu cyflog er mwyn talu am yr hyn yr ydym wedi ei weld heddiw. Nid y nhw ddylai dalu, wrth gwrs. Fel Llywodraeth, byddwn yn ymladd y newidiadau hyn ac yn ystyried a yw’n bosibl i sicrhau mai ni fel Llywodraeth Cymru a fydd yn rheoli cyflogau yng Nghymru. Bydd rhaid inni ystyried hynny os bydd Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig yn symud ymlaen â’r hyn a ddywedodd heddiw.

The First Minister: It is very important that we have had more money, particularly capital money, but the fear is that people will have to pay for it in one way or another. That will mean that doctors, nurses and social workers will see a cut in their income in order to pay for what we have seen today. They are not the ones who should be paying, of course. As a Government, we will fight against these changes and consider whether it is possible to ensure that we, as the Welsh Government, control pay in Wales. That is something that we will have to consider if the UK Government proceeds with what it said today.

Julie James: First Minister, will you join me in congratulating Swansea Labour students, and Labour students across Wales, who are lobbying their universities to pay all their staff at least a living wage?

Julie James: Brif Weinidog, a wnewch ymuno â mi i longyfarch myfyrwyr Llafur Abertawe, a myfyrwyr Llafur ar draws Cymru, sy’n lobïo eu prifysgolion i dalu o leiaf gyflog byw i’w holl staff?

The First Minister: Of course. As I said earlier on, we are keen to ensure that all employers adopt the living wage voluntarily. Campaigns aimed at doing that are to be welcomed.

Y Prif Weinidog: Wrth gwrs. Fel y dywedais ynghynt, rydym yn awyddus i sicrhau bod pob cyflogwr yn mabwysiadu’r cyflog byw o’u gwirfodd. Croesewir ymgyrchoedd sy’n anelu at wneud hynny.

William Graham: The First Minister will know that a good example of such co-operation is the Gwent frailty project. The key to effective and efficient service delivery is the sharing of best practice, so that it becomes common practice. Will the First Minister suggest to the Minister for Health and Social Services how this could be shared across Wales?

William Graham: Bydd y Prif Weinidog yn gwybod mai enghraifft dda o gydweithredu o’r fath yw prosiect eiddilwch Gwent. Yr allwedd i gyflwyno gwasanaethau effeithiol ac effeithlon yw rhannu arfer gorau, fel ei fod yn dod yn arfer cyffredin. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog awgrymu i’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol sut y gellid rhannu hyn ar draws Cymru?

The First Minister: I have visited the Gwent frailty project and it is an excellent example of what is being done between the local health board, the five local authorities and the voluntary sector. It is a model that we believe can be adopted by local authorities and local bodies across Wales.

Y Prif Weinidog: Ymwelais â phrosiect eiddilwch Gwent ac mae’n enghraifft ardderchog o’r hyn sy’n cael ei wneud rhwng y bwrdd iechyd lleol, y pum awdurdod lleol a’r sector gwirfoddol. Mae’n fodel y credwn y gellid ei fabwysiadu gan awdurdodau lleol a chyrff lleol ledled Cymru.

Simon Thomas: Yfory, bydd nyrsys a gweithwyr gofal ymhlith y rhai a fydd yn mynd ar streic er mwyn amddiffyn eu pensiynau. Pa drafodaethau yr ydych wedi eu cael gyda byrddau iechyd ac awdurdodau lleol i sicrhau eu bod yn gweithio gyda’i gilydd yfory i sicrhau bod y claf yn cael ei amddiffyn yn ystod y streic?

Simon Thomas: Tomorrow, nurses and care workers will be among those striking to defend their pensions. What discussions have you had with health boards and local authorities to make sure that they work together tomorrow to ensure that the patient is safeguarded during the strike?

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae cytundeb rhwng yr undebau a’r byrddau iechyd, fel yr wyf yn deall, a fydd yn sicrhau bod pobl sydd angen triniaeth frys yn cael hynny.

The First Minister: There is agreement between unions and the health boards, as I understand it, to ensure that people in need of urgent treatment are able to access it.

Jocelyn Davies: No problem at all, First Minister. I am the chair of the cross-party group on domestic violence, and I agree with you 100 per cent.

Jocelyn Davies: Dim problem o gwbl, Brif Weinidog. Fi yw cadeirydd y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar drais yn y cartref, a chytunaf yn llwyr.

When you told us a few weeks ago that the Welsh Government would be taking forward the critical care unit in Torfaen on receipt of the business case, did you know that health projects were, in fact, on hold?

Pan ddywedoch wrthym ychydig wythnosau yn ôl y byddai Llywodraeth Cymru yn datblygu’r uned gofal critigol yn Nhor-faen ar ôl derbyn yr achos busnes, a oeddech yn gwybod bod prosiectau iechyd, mewn gwirionedd, wedi’u gohirio?

The First Minister: Health projects are not on hold. Health projects are being taken forward as we speak. It is right to say that some projects will need to be examined carefully to see how they fit with the model that we want the NHS to conform to in years to come.

Y Prif Weinidog: Nid yw’r prosiectau iechyd wedi’u gohirio. Mae prosiectau iechyd yn cael eu datblygu wrth inni siarad. Mae’n iawn dweud y bydd angen archwilio rhai prosiectau’n ofalus i weld sut y maent yn cyd-fynd â’r model yr ydym am i’r GIG gydymffurfio ag ef mewn blynyddoedd i ddod.

I thank the Member for her comments in relation to Councillor McEvoy.

Diolch i’r Aelod am ei sylwadau mewn perthynas â’r Cynghorydd McEvoy.

2.15 p.m.

I also have many constituents who have come out the wrong end of it and have lost everything—their jobs and the full works—for just trying to honestly point to faults in the system. Your answer, saying that it is not devolved, is completely spurious.

Mae gennyf i hefyd lawer o etholwyr sydd wedi dod allan ar yr ochr anghywir iddo ac wedi colli popeth—eu swyddi a phopeth—ddim ond am geisio pwyntio yn onest at y diffygion yn y system. Mae eich ateb, sef dweud nad yw wedi’i ddatganoli, yn hollol annilys.

The First Minister: It is not devolved. It is a matter of employment law and the Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998, which is not devolved. It is as simple as that; it is a legal certainty. We will seek to provide guidance. We cannot change the law; that is clear. We can certainly provide guidance for bodies, if it is felt that it is needed, and I am open to receiving evidence from Members of difficulties in the procedure in order to see whether that guidance needs to be made or strengthened.

Y Prif Weinidog: Nid yw wedi cael ei ddatganoli. Mae’n perthyn i gyfraith cyflogaeth a Deddf Datgelu er Lles y Cyhoedd 1998, sydd heb ei datganoli. Mae mor syml â hynny; mae’n sicrwydd cyfreithiol. Byddwn yn ceisio darparu canllawiau. Ni allwn newid y gyfraith; mae hynny’n glir. Gallwn yn sicr ddarparu arweiniad i gyrff, os teimlir bod angen, ac yr wyf yn agored i dderbyn tystiolaeth gan Aelodau am anawsterau yn y weithdrefn er mwyn gweld a oes angen gwneud y canllawiau hynny neu eu cryfhau.

Mark Isherwood: Wales has the highest proportion of whistleblowers in the UK. As a union official recently told me, based on his experience with tribunal judgments, too many organisations in Wales in receipt of public money treat their staff appallingly badly. I have had wide experience of many vindicated whistleblowers, such as the former internal audit manager in Flintshire, vindicated by employment tribunal, the former head of technical services in Flintshire, vindicated by PricewaterhouseCoopers at a full independent inquiry, the Plas Madoc Communities First whistleblower, vindicated by the Wales Audit Office, the Hafal Wrexham whistleblower, vindicated by an employment tribunal, and the former Communities First co-ordinators who I am currently working with on further allegations. In each case, they have suffered threats and false allegations, and, in each case, when the Welsh Government has been asked for help, it has looked the other way and protected vested interests. You have put the lid on matters and, on many occasions, you have protected and even rewarded the perpetrators. Why do we have to live in a Wales in which messengers are shot, complainants are silenced, dissent is squashed and whistleblowers are smeared? I have met too many people whose lives have been destroyed to have you come up with a UK-based or glib answer.

Mark Isherwood: Cymru sydd â’r gyfran uchaf o chwythwyr chwiban yn y DU. Fel y dywedodd swyddog undeb wrthyf yn ddiweddar, ar sail ei brofiad gyda dyfarniadau tribiwnlys, mae gormod o sefydliadau yng Nghymru sy’n derbyn arian cyhoeddus yn trin eu staff yn ofnadwy o wael. Yr wyf wedi cael profiad helaeth o lawer o chwythwyr chwiban sydd wedi’u cyfiawnhau. Yn eu mysg oedd y cyn rheolwr archwilio mewnol yn sir y Fflint, a gyfiawnhawyd gan dribiwnlys cyflogaeth, cyn-bennaeth gwasanaethau technegol yn sir y Fflint, a gyfiawnhawyd gan PricewaterhouseCoopers mewn ymchwiliad annibynnol llawn, chwythwr chwiban Cymunedau yn Gyntaf Plas Madoc, a gyfiawnhawyd gan Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru, chwythwr chwiban Hafal Wrecsam, a gyfiawnhawyd gan dribiwnlys cyflogaeth, a chyn-gydlynwyr Cymunedau yn Gyntaf yr wyf yn gweithio gyda nhw ar hyn o bryd ar honiadau pellach. Ym mhob achos, maent wedi dioddef bygythiadau a honiadau ffug, ac, ym mhob achos, pan ofynnwyd i Lywodraeth Cymru am gymorth, edrychodd hi’r ffordd arall a gwarchod buddiannau breintiedig. Yr ydych wedi terfynu materion ac ar sawl achlysur yr ydych wedi diogelu a hyd yn oed gwobrwyo’r drwgweithredwyr. Pam mae’n rhaid i ni i fyw mewn Cymru lle mae negeswyr yn cael eu saethu, achwynwyr yn cael eu tewi, anghytuno yn cael ei wasgu a chwythwyr chwiban yn cael eu pardduo? Yr wyf wedi cwrdd â chymaint o bobl y mae eu bywydau wedi cael eu dinistrio fel na fyddai’n briodol i chi roi ateb llithrig neu un sy’n cyfeirio at y DU yn gyffredinol.

The First Minister: There was no question there. The comments made by the Member would have far more resonance if his party was not trying to destroy the right of such people to go to tribunal in the first place, by making it more expensive for people to go to tribunal and more difficult for people to get the kind of help that they need, and if it was not trying to wreck the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006, and all of the protection that that provides, and to reduce employment rights. What did the Chancellor say today? He said that Britain cannot afford employment rights for its own workers. We will not take any lessons from the party opposite, because all it wants to do is to make it far more difficult for people to get the rights that they have enjoyed for many years. [Interruption.] It is on the side of the people who are making lots of money, not on the side of ordinary people in the squeezed middle in this country.

Y Prif Weinidog: Nid oedd unrhyw gwestiwn ganddo. Byddai sylwadau’r Aelod yn atseinio llawer yn fwy pe na bai ei blaid yn ceisio dinistrio hawl pobl o’r fath i fynd i’r tribiwnlys yn y lle cyntaf, drwy ei gwneud yn ddrytach i bobl fynd i dribiwnlys ac yn anoddach i bobl gael y math o help sydd ei angen arnynt, a phe na bai’n ceisio dryllio Rheoliadau Trosglwyddo Ymgymeriadau (Diogelu Cyflogaeth) 2006 a phob amddiffyniad y maent yn eu darparu, a lleihau hawliau cyflogaeth. Beth ddywedodd y Canghellor heddiw? Dywedodd na all Prydain fforddio hawliau cyflogaeth i’w gweithwyr ei hun. Ni fyddwn yn cymryd unrhyw wersi oddi wrth y blaid gyferbyn, gan mai’r cyfan y mae am ei wneud yw ei gwneud yn llawer anoddach i bobl gael yr hawliau y maent wedi eu mwynhau am flynyddoedd lawer. [Torri ar draws.]  Mae’n blaid i’r bobl sy’n gwneud llawer o arian, nid y bobl gyffredin, sydd wedi eu gwasgu yn y canol, yn y wlad hon.

The Presiding Officer: Order. It is getting very rowdy this afternoon.

Y Llywydd: Trefn. Mae’n swnllyd iawn y prynhawn yma.

Antoinette Sandbach: Will you confirm that you will release that report into the public domain when the Minister receives it? Secondly, will you confirm that your Government will be willing to resume the previous One Wales Government’s TB eradication strategy, if that is the recommendation of this report?

Antoinette Sandbach: A wnewch chi gadarnhau y byddwch yn gwneud yr adroddiad hwnnw yn gyhoeddus pan fydd y Gweinidog yn ei gael? Yn ail, a wnewch chi gadarnhau y bydd eich Llywodraeth yn barod i ailgydio yn strategaeth dileu TB flaenorol Llywodraeth Cymru’n Un, os mai dyna yw argymhelliad yr adroddiad hwn?

The First Minister: Yes, the report will be made public. It is not possible to pre-judge the decision in any way and the Minister will consider the report when it is available.

Y Prif Weinidog: Bydd, bydd yr adroddiad yn cael ei wneud yn gyhoeddus. Nid yw’n bosibl rhagfarnu’r penderfyniad mewn unrhyw ffordd a bydd y Gweinidog yn ystyried yr adroddiad pan fydd ar gael.

David Melding: Do you believe, as I do, that we should set a standard that is not far off the general standard for the population as a whole, and, until we do that, we will not send the sort of message that we need to send to our schools about how looked-after children are supported as they take public examinations? At the moment, we are not ambitious enough for looked-after children, although we should note that some progress is being made and welcome that.

David Melding: A ydych yn credu, fel yr wyf innau, y dylem osod safon nad yw’n bell oddi wrth y safon gyffredinol ar gyfer y  boblogaeth gyfan, ac, hyd nes y gwnawn ni hynny, ni fyddwn yn anfon y math o neges y mae angen i ni ei hanfon i’n hysgolion am sut mae cefnogi plant sy’n derbyn gofal wrth iddynt sefyll arholiadau cyhoeddus? Ar hyn o bryd, nid ydym yn ddigon uchelgeisiol ar gyfer plant sy’n derbyn gofal, er y dylem nodi bod rhywfaint o gynnydd yn cael ei wneud a chroesawu hynny.

The First Minister: On 1 September we introduced a duty on governing bodies of maintained schools in Wales to designate a member of staff for looked-after children who will champion their interests and strive to raise their standards. We have also established a national network of looked-after children’s education co-ordinators who share knowledge, understanding and, indeed, who collaborate. Yes, I look forward to the time when there is no difference between the outcomes for looked-after children and for the population as a whole.

Y Prif Weinidog: Ar 1 Medi cyflwynasom ddyletswydd ar gyrff llywodraethu ysgolion a gynhelir yng Nghymru i ddynodi aelod o staff ar gyfer plant sy’n derbyn gofal a fydd yn hyrwyddo eu buddiannau ac yn ymdrechu i godi eu safonau. Yr ydym hefyd wedi sefydlu rhwydwaith cenedlaethol o gydlynwyr addysg plant sy’n derbyn gofal sy’n rhannu gwybodaeth, dealltwriaeth ac, yn wir, sy’n cydweithio. Yr wyf yn edrych ymlaen at yr adeg pan nad oes unrhyw wahaniaeth rhwng canlyniadau plant sy’n derbyn gofal a’r boblogaeth gyfan.

Jenny Rathbone: I suggest that one of the standards that we need to set is for the attendance of looked-after children at school, because, however brilliant the teaching, if the children are not there, they will not be able to learn. Unfortunately, Cardiff Council has one of the lowest rates of attendance of looked-after children of all local authorities. What do you plan to do to rectify that?

Jenny Rathbone: Awgrymaf mai un o’r safonau y mae angen i ni ei gosod yw un sy’n ymwneud â phresenoldeb plant sy’n derbyn gofal yn yr ysgol, oherwydd, pa mor wych bynnag yw’r addysgu, os nad yw’r plant yno, ni fyddant yn gallu dysgu. Yn anffodus, mae gan Gyngor Caerdydd un o’r cyfraddau presenoldeb isaf gan blant sy’n derbyn gofal o blith pob awdurdod lleol. Beth ydych chi’n bwriadu ei wneud i unioni hynny?

The First Minister: Cardiff’s response to underperformance on outcomes for looked-after children has been much slower than anticipated, but changes in leadership at an operational level, and improved data usage in informing strategic direction and resource provision, will, we hope, soon have an impact.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae ymateb Caerdydd i danberfformio o ran canlyniadau i blant sy’n derbyn gofal wedi bod yn llawer arafach na’r disgwyl, ond yr ydym yn gobeithio y bydd newidiadau mewn arweinyddiaeth ar lefel weithredol a defnydd gwell o ddata wrth lywio cyfeiriad strategol a darpariaeth adnoddau yn cael effaith yn fuan.

Lindsay Whittle: First Minister, you will be aware of the excellent work that Raising Attainment and Individual Standards in Education does in collaboration with local education authorities in Wales, in particular with regard to looked-after children. What is your Government doing to assist and encourage more schools across Wales to work with the organisation to improve attainment records?

Lindsay Whittle: Brif Weinidog, byddwch yn ymwybodol o waith ardderchog Codi Cyrhaeddiad a Safonau Addysgol Unigolion ar y cyd ag awdurdodau addysg lleol yng Nghymru, yn enwedig mewn perthynas â phlant sy’n derbyn gofal. Beth mae eich Llywodraeth yn ei wneud i gynorthwyo ac annog mwy o ysgolion ledled Cymru i weithio gyda’r sefydliad i wella cofnodion cyrhaeddiad?

The First Minister: That is a matter for the member of staff who has been appointed to champion the interests of looked-after children, working with the local authority to examine the best way of ensuring better outcomes for looked-after children.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae hynny’n fater i’r aelod o staff sydd wedi cael ei benodi i hyrwyddo buddiannau plant sy’n derbyn gofal, gan weithio gyda’r awdurdod lleol i edrych ar y ffordd orau o sicrhau canlyniadau gwell i blant sy’n derbyn gofal.

Kenneth Skates: I warmly welcome the points that you have just raised and the commitment of this Labour Government to looked-after children. Last week, I joined my colleague Ann Jones and staff from Action for Children at Bryn y Wal children’s home in Rhuddlan. The visit was a superb opportunity for us to see, at first hand, some of the challenges facing young people as they prepare for adult life. Will the Welsh Government examine how it can better support care leavers over the next few years to ensure that the young people whom I met on Friday are given the same opportunities and support as their peers not in care?

Kenneth Skates: Croesawaf yn wresog y pwyntiau yr ydych newydd eu codi ac ymrwymiad y Llywodraeth Lafur hon i blant sy’n derbyn gofal. Yr wythnos diwethaf, ymunais â’m cydweithiwr Ann Jones a staff o Gweithredu dros Blant yng nghartref plant Bryn y Wal yn Rhuddlan. Yr oedd yr ymweliad yn gyfle gwych i ni weld yn uniongyrchol rai o’r heriau sy’n wynebu pobl ifanc wrth iddynt baratoi ar gyfer bywyd fel oedolion. A wnaiff Llywodraeth Cymru edrych ar sut y gall gefnogi pobl sy’n gadael gofal yn well dros y blynyddoedd nesaf er mwyn sicrhau bod y bobl ifanc y cyfarfûm â hwy ar ddydd Gwener yn cael yr un cyfleoedd a chefnogaeth â’u cyfoedion nad ydynt yn y system ofal?

The First Minister: We have implemented provisions under the Children and Young Persons Act 2008 to strengthen local authorities’ duties in relation to looked-after children and other vulnerable children. In the early part of next year, we will consult on arrangements to enable care leavers to reconnect to care for the purpose of education and training.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr ydym wedi gweithredu darpariaethau o dan Ddeddf Plant a Phobl Ifanc 2008 i gryfhau dyletswyddau awdurdodau lleol mewn perthynas â phlant sy’n derbyn gofal a phlant eraill sy’n agored i niwed. Yn gynnar y flwyddyn nesaf, byddwn yn ymgynghori ar drefniadau i alluogi pobl sy’n gadael gofal i ailgysylltu â gofal at ddiben addysg a hyfforddiant.

The First Minister: I commend the establishment that you have mentioned on its successes. I am hesitant to single it out above all others, because I know that there are so many across the whole of Wales that have been very successful. There are events that recognise the achievements of Bangladeshi restaurateurs, the UK curry awards being one example. We see now a new generation of restaurants that might describe themselves as Indian restaurants but are, in fact, run by Bangladeshi families, and we see the innovation in terms of the cuisine and décor in many parts of Wales. The example that you have given is one among many where great thought is being given to improving the business model. 

Y Prif Weinidog: Cymeradwyaf y sefydliad yr ydych wedi sôn amdano ar ei llwyddiannau. Yr wyf yn betrusgar i roi sylw neilltuol iddo uwchlaw pob un arall, oherwydd gwn fod yna gymaint o lwyddiannau wedi bod ar draws Cymru gyfan. Mae digwyddiadau sy’n cydnabod cyflawniadau perchnogion bwytai Bangladeshaidd a  gwobrau cyri’r DU yn un enghraifft. Gwelwn yn awr genhedlaeth newydd o fwytai a allai ddisgrifio eu hunain fel bwytai Indiaidd ond, mewn gwirionedd, teuluoedd Bangladeshaidd sy’n eu rhedeg, a gwelwn yr arloesedd o ran y bwyd a’r addurno mewn sawl rhan o Gymru. Mae’r enghraifft a roesoch yn un ymhlith llawer lle mae gwella’r model busnes yn destun dipyn o ystyriaeth. 

2.30 p.m.            

John Griffiths: I thank the Member for that supplementary question. There is support in place through the Welsh Government. Ynni’r Fro is a very important aspect of not only advice and assistance for community and small-scale projects, but financial support. I know that connections to the grid are an issue, and I know that Ofgem has held stakeholder workshops across Wales—in fact, there was one in Cardiff in October—to look at these issues of small-scale connection and to hopefully find ways forward. Community Energy Wales is also an organisation that is, more recently, addressing these issues, and hopefully finding solutions, including those involved in the financing of projects.

John Griffiths: Diolch i’r Aelod am y cwestiwn atodol. Mae cefnogaeth yn ei lle drwy Lywodraeth Cymru. Mae Ynni’r Fro yn elfen bwysig iawn nid yn unig o gyngor a chymorth ar gyfer prosiectau cymunedol ac ar raddfa fach, ond cymorth ariannol hefyd. Gwn fod cysylltiadau â’r grid yn broblem, a gwn fod Ofgem wedi cynnal gweithdai gyda rhanddeiliaid ar draws Cymru—yn wir, yr oedd un yng Nghaerdydd ym mis Hydref—i edrych ar faterion cysylltiad ar raddfa fach ac, rwy’n gobeithio, i ddod o hyd i ffyrdd ymlaen. Mae Ynni Cymunedol Cymru hefyd yn fudiad sydd, yn fwy diweddar, yn mynd i’r afael â’r materion hyn, gan ddod o hyd i atebion, gobeithio, gan gynnwys y rhai sy’n gysylltiedig ag ariannu prosiectau.

Kenneth Skates: Minister, from manufacturers such as Kronospan in Chirk in my constituency, to small seedling companies further along the Welsh border, the number of people employed in local forestry, timber production and the wood products industry in Clwyd south is significant, and indeed, for the whole of Wales, I understand that the sector generates more than £840 million for the economy and employs 10,000 people. What work is your department and the Welsh Government doing to ensure the viability of sustainable wood production in Wales and to facilitate a close working relationship between those who manage our forests and those who rely on wood production in their businesses?

Kenneth Skates: Weinidog, o wneuthurwyr megis Kronospan yn y Waun yn fy etholaeth i i gwmnïau cychwynnol bach ymhellach ar hyd y gororau, mae nifer y bobl a gyflogir mewn coedwigaeth leol, cynhyrchu pren a’r diwydiant cynnyrch pren yn ne Clwyd yn sylweddol, ac, yn wir, ar gyfer Cymru gyfan, yr wyf yn deall bod y sector yn cynhyrchu mwy na £840 miliwn ar gyfer yr economi, ac mae’n cyflogi 10,000 o bobl. Pa waith y mae eich adran chi a Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i sicrhau hyfywedd cynhyrchu pren cynaliadwy yng Nghymru ac i hwyluso perthynas waith agos rhwng y rhai sy’n rheoli ein coedwigoedd a’r rhai sy’n dibynnu ar gynhyrchu pren yn eu busnesau?

John Griffiths: I thank Ken Skates for that question. I was recently in Ruthin—which is not in your constituency, I know, but it is nearby—talking about these issues with a local timber company. It is clear that forestry is a very important aspect of life in Wales in many different ways, but it is also particularly important in terms of the availability of timber for private enterprise and general support of private enterprise and business activity. Those are issues that will be very much at the heart of Welsh Government policy around forestry, including policy around a single environment body, ensuring that the advantages of forestry activity are maintained and built upon for the future.

John Griffiths: Diolch i Ken Skates am y cwestiwn hwnnw. Roeddwn yn ddiweddar yn Rhuthun—nad yw yn eich etholaeth chi, yr wyf yn gwybod, ond mae gerllaw—yn siarad am y materion hyn gyda chwmni coed lleol. Mae’n amlwg bod coedwigaeth yn agwedd bwysig iawn o fywyd yng Nghymru mewn nifer o wahanol ffyrdd, ond mae hefyd yn arbennig o bwysig o ran argaeledd coed ar gyfer mentrau preifat a chefnogaeth gyffredinol o fenter breifat a gweithgarwch busnes. Mae’r rheini’n faterion a fydd wrth wraidd polisi Llywodraeth Cymru o ran coedwigaeth, gan gynnwys y polisi ynglŷn ag un corff amgylcheddol, yn sicrhau bod y manteision o weithgaredd coedwigaeth yn cael eu cynnal a’u datblygu ar gyfer y dyfodol.

Russell George: Minister, Wales could potentially be a significant player in the field of renewable energy—and I should add that renewable energy does not mean just wind—which could pave the way forward for a dynamic, green economy. Are you as concerned as I am about comments made by renewable energy companies a few weeks ago that there was no clarity in Government policy and that Wales lacked ambition and leadership?

Russell George: Weinidog, gall Cymru o bosibl fod yn chwaraewr o bwys ym maes ynni adnewyddadwy—a dylwn ychwanegu nad yw ynni adnewyddadwy yn golygu gwynt yn unig—a allai baratoi’r ffordd ymlaen ar gyfer economi ddeinamig a gwyrdd. A ydych chi mor bryderus â minnau ynghylch y sylwadau a wnaed gan gwmnïau ynni adnewyddadwy rai wythnosau yn ôl nad oedd unrhyw eglurder ym mholisi’r Llywodraeth, a bod diffyg uchelgais ac arweinyddiaeth yng Nghymru?

John Griffiths: It is clear that there is leadership in the Welsh Government on energy policy and a clear understanding of the advantages of the green economy and green jobs. However, what is very frustrating for Welsh Government, and for many others, is the complex situation that needs to be addressed by further devolution. That 50 MW limit in terms of Welsh Government consenting powers is not conducive to creating the sort of environment that we would like to have in Wales to facilitate renewable energy and all the advantages that go with it. We really need that further devolution, and the First Minister and I, and many others, have made that clear on a number of occasions, and will continue to do so.

John Griffiths: Mae’n amlwg bod arweinyddiaeth yn Llywodraeth Cymru ar bolisi ynni a dealltwriaeth glir o fanteision yr economi werdd a swyddi gwyrdd. Fodd bynnag, yr hyn sy’n rhwystredig iawn i Lywodraeth Cymru, ac i lawer o bobl eraill, yw’r sefyllfa gymhleth y mae angen mynd i’r afael â hi drwy ddatganoli pellach. Nid yw terfyn 50 MW o ran pwerau cydsynio Llywodraeth Cymru yn gydnaws â chreu’r math o amgylchedd y byddem yn hoffi ei gael yng Nghymru i hwyluso ynni adnewyddadwy a’r holl fanteision sy’n mynd gydag ef. Rydym wir angen y datganoli pellach hwnnw, ac mae’r Prif Weinidog a minnau, a llawer o rai eraill, wedi gwneud hynny’n glir ar sawl achlysur, a byddwn yn parhau i wneud hynny.

Russell George: I appreciate that answer, but the fact remains that the current policy is a total mess. Companies are still trying to understand what the First Minister said back in June, not to mention the onshore energy gap you have acquired with the backpedalling on TAN 8 target figures. Will you concede that if we are going to ensure investor confidence and get anywhere close to the Government’s targets for sustainable energy generation, we have to review TAN 8 and embrace new and improved renewable technologies in areas like marine and tidal energy and move away from the Government’s overdependence on wind?

Russell George: Yr wyf yn gwerthfawrogi yr ateb hwnnw, ond erys y ffaith bod y polisi presennol yn llanast llwyr. Mae cwmnïau yn dal i geisio deall beth a ddywedwyd gan y Prif Weinidog yn ôl ym Mehefin, heb sôn am y bwlch ynni ar y tir sydd gennych chi yn sgîl y camu nôl a ddigwyddodd ar ffigurau targed TAN 8. A wnewch chi dderbyn, os ydym yn mynd i sicrhau hyder buddsoddwyr a chyrraedd rhywle’n agos at dargedau’r Llywodraeth ar gyfer cynhyrchu ynni cynaliadwy, fod yn rhaid inni adolygu TAN 8 a chofleidio technolegau adnewyddadwy newydd a gwell mewn ardaloedd fel ynni morol ac ynni’r llanw a symud oddi wrth orddibyniaeth y Llywodraeth ar ynni gwynt?

John Griffiths: The Welsh Government’s renewable energy policy is about a mix of renewables, and onshore wind is an important part of that. TAN 8 provides a strategic approach to large-scale onshore wind development. We clarified that the GL Garrad Hassan figures are the maximum outputs. Those policies remain in place.

John Griffiths: Mae polisi ynni adnewyddadwy Llywodraeth Cymru yn cynnwys cymysgedd o ynni adnewyddadwy, ac mae gwynt ar y tir yn rhan bwysig o hynny. Mae TAN 8 yn darparu dull strategol o ddatblygu gwynt ar y tir ar raddfa fawr. Yr ydym wedi egluro mai ffigurau GL Garrad Hassan yw’r canlyniadau mwyaf posibl. Mae’r polisïau hynny yn dal i fod yn eu lle.

John Griffiths: Our views are expressed through officials, as this is a body that deals with technical matters and is attended by officials. Our views on undergrounding and the advantage of undergrounding are well known, and we will continue to stress that importance.

John Griffiths: Mae ein barn yn cael ei mynegi trwy swyddogion, gan fod hwn yn gorff sy’n delio â materion technegol ac mae ein swyddogion yn mynychu ei gyfarfodydd. Mae ein barn ar danddaearu a’r manteision o wneud hynny yn glir i bawb, a byddwn yn parhau i bwysleisio’r pwysigrwydd.

Antoinette Sandbach: Minister, when I have questioned the First Minister and you about the apparent absence of Welsh advocacy during the ENSG meetings, the point, as you have made today, has always been that your Government has mentioned the importance of undergrounding. However, in your Government’s submission to Ofgem’s Project TransmiT consultation in December 2010, you did not mention undergrounding once. The response was submitted after the consultation closed. Will you confirm whether this was a simple oversight or whether your Government has only recently begun to pay attention to the concerns of communities in rural Wales, whose lives may be blighted by the construction of a new network of high-voltage pylons?

Antoinette Sandbach: Weinidog, pan wyf wedi cwestiynu’r Prif Weinidog a chithau am absenoldeb ymddangosiadol eiriolaeth yng Nghymru yn ystod y cyfarfodydd ENSG, y pwynt a wneir bob tro, fel yr ydych wedi ei wneud heddiw, yw’r ffaith bod eich Llywodraeth wedi sôn am bwysigrwydd tanddaearu. Fodd bynnag, yn ymateb eich Llywodraeth i ymgynghoriad Prosiect TransmiT Ofgem ym mis Rhagfyr 2010, nid ni wnaethoch chi sôn am danddaearu unwaith. Cafodd yr ymateb ei gyflwyno ar ôl i’r ymgynghoriad gau. A wnewch chi ddweud ai amryfusedd syml oedd hyn, neu ai dim ond yn ddiweddar y gwnaeth eich Llywodraeth ddechrau rhoi sylw i bryderon cymunedau yng nghefn gwlad Cymru, y gallai eu bywydau gael eu difetha gan rwydwaith newydd o beilonau foltedd uchel?

John Griffiths: The Welsh Government’s policy on undergrounding and grid connections in general are well known and are about safeguarding communities and addressing the concerns of communities. That has been the case for quite some time and will continue to be so.

John Griffiths: Mae polisïau Llywodraeth Cymru ar danddaearu a chysylltiadau’r grid yn gyffredinol yn adnabyddus ac yn ymwneud â diogelu cymunedau a mynd i’r afael â phryderon cymunedau. Mae hynny wedi bod yn wir ers peth amser a bydd yn parhau i fod felly.

Simon Thomas: Weinidog, nid wyf am godi bwganod ar y mater hwn, ond mae’n rhaid cael gwell system rhwydweithio trydan yng Nghymru er mwyn yr economi. Nid oes unrhyw amheuaeth ynglŷn â hynny. Wedi dweud hynny, mae tipyn o ddryswch ynglŷn â gwir gost tanddaearu ceblau trydan, ac mae’n bosibl bod llawer o gamarwain wedi digwydd yn lleol, er enghraifft ym Maldwyn, ynglŷn â’r gwir gost. Onid yw’n wir dweud y gallai cymysgedd o danddaearu a pheilonau newydd uwchben y ddaear arwain at ateb derbyniol i gymunedau? Felly, yr wyf yn pwyso arnoch, Weinidog, i ddefnyddio’r dulliau priodol gorau ar gyfer hinsawdd, amgylchedd a daearyddiaeth Cymru.

Simon Thomas: Minister, I do not want to be accused of scaremongering, but we must have a better electricity network in Wales for the sake of the economy. There is no doubt about that. Having said that, there is some confusion as to the true cost of undergrounding, and it could well be that people have been misled locally, in Montgomeryshire for example, about that cost. Is it not true to say that a combination of undergrounding and new overground pylons could lead to a solution that communities find acceptable? Therefore, I urge you, Minister, to use the best appropriate means possible for the sake of the climate, the environment and the geography of Wales.

John Griffiths: I thank Simon Thomas for that question. It is very much a matter of understanding the importance of developing renewable energy, including onshore wind, in Wales, for the reasons that we all know about. Ways can be found to carry out necessary improvement to grid infrastructure with the understanding of local communities and the costing aspects involved. We are working towards that with the other organisations involved at this time.

John Griffiths: Diolchaf i Simon Thomas am y cwestiwn hwnnw. Mae’n sicr yn fater o ddeall pwysigrwydd datblygu ynni adnewyddadwy, gan gynnwys gwynt ar y tir, yng Nghymru, am y rhesymau yr ydym i gyd yn gwybod amdanynt. Gellir dod o hyd i ffyrdd i wneud gwelliannau angenrheidiol i seilwaith y grid gyda dealltwriaeth cymunedau lleol a’r costau dan sylw. Rydym yn gweithio tuag at hynny gyda’r sefydliadau perthnasol eraill ar hyn o bryd.

John Griffiths: I recently launched our national flood and coastal erosion risk strategy, and it is very clear from that document that, as well as building necessary defences against flooding, it is very much about raising awareness in communities and getting communities to be part of the best means of addressing the risks that exist. We are very committed to that approach. The Environment Agency has carried out a great deal of very good engagement exercises with communities right across Wales. We have helplines and flood warning systems. We need to ensure that people understand what they can do to best protect themselves and take the necessary action.

John Griffiths: Yn ddiweddar, lansiais ein strategaeth genedlaethol ar risg llifogydd ac erydu arfordirol, ac mae’n amlwg iawn o’r ddogfen honno, yn ogystal ag adeiladu amddiffynfeydd angenrheidiol rhag llifogydd, fod hyn yn ymwneud â chodi ymwybyddiaeth mewn cymunedau a chael cymunedau i fod yn rhan o’r ffordd orau o fynd i’r afael â’r risgiau sy’n bodoli. Yr ydym yn ymrwymedig iawn i’r dull hwnnw. Mae Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd wedi cynnal llawer iawn o ymarferion ymgysylltu da iawn gyda chymunedau ledled Cymru. Mae gennym linellau cymorth a systemau rhybuddio rhag llifogydd. Mae angen inni sicrhau bod pobl yn deall yr hyn y gallant ei wneud i amddiffyn eu hunain orau, gan gymryd y camau angenrheidiol.

2.45 p.m.

I know that local planning authorities are very much aware of Welsh Government policies for renewable energy and are expected to determine planning applications in a timely way. We provide additional resources in terms of expertise and funding for outside technical and expert help. We provide a range of materials and training events. On top of that, a toolkit is available for low-carbon and renewable energy, which is for planners. So, there is quite a lot of support available from the Welsh Government. It is something that we always look at to see whether improvement can be made.

Gwn fod awdurdodau cynllunio lleol yn ymwybodol iawn o bolisïau Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer ynni adnewyddadwy a disgwylir iddynt benderfynu ar geisiadau cynllunio mewn modd amserol. Rydym yn darparu adnoddau ychwanegol o ran arbenigedd ac arian ar gyfer cymorth technegol ac arbenigol allanol. Rydym yn darparu amrywiaeth o ddeunyddiau a digwyddiadau hyfforddi. Ar ben hynny, mae pecyn cymorth ar gael ar gyfer ynni carbon isel ac adnewyddadwy, sydd ar gyfer cynllunwyr. Felly, mae cryn dipyn o gymorth ar gael gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Mae’n rhywbeth rydym yn edrych arno bob amser i weld a ellir gwneud gwelliannau.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Minister, large projects often have an impact on a far wider area than the specific council area where they will be located. While I passionately support the local angle in determining an application, are you considering including anything in the planning Bill that you will be bringing forward that would make local authorities take wider considerations into their determinations, such as economic, social and environmental impacts, so that the wider regional aspect can be considered in a planning application that is located in one particular authority area?

Andrew R.T. Davies: Weinidog, mae prosiectau mawr yn aml yn cael effaith ar ardal llawer ehangach nag ardal benodol y cyngor lle y cânt eu lleoli. Er y cefnogaf yn angerddol yr ongl leol wrth benderfynu ar gais, a ydych yn ystyried cynnwys unrhyw beth yn y Bil cynllunio y byddwch yn ei gyflwyno a fyddai’n gwneud i awdurdodau lleol gymryd ystyriaethau ehangach yn eu penderfyniadau, megis effeithiau economaidd, cymdeithasol ac amgylcheddol, fel y gellir ystyried yr agwedd ranbarthol ehangach mewn cais cynllunio sydd wedi’i leoli yn ardal un awdurdod penodol?

John Griffiths: What I can say is that much of the planning process is very much about understanding the wider impacts. Of course, sustainable development is important to our national planning policy, ‘Planning Policy Wales’, and local development plans. Local development plans can, and do, take account of situations in neighbouring authorities and the wider region. I can tell the Member that John Davies, who is heading up the advisory group that has just issued a call for evidence, is looking at delivery and structures. The group’s work will feed in to the White Paper and the legislation on planning in Wales.

John Griffiths: Yr hyn y gallaf ei ddweud yw bod llawer o’r broses gynllunio’n ymwneud â deall yr effeithiau ehangach. Wrth gwrs, mae datblygu cynaliadwy’n bwysig i’n polisi cynllunio cenedlaethol, ‘Polisi Cynllunio Cymru’, a’r cynlluniau datblygu lleol. Mae cynlluniau datblygu lleol yn gallu ystyried, ac yn ystyried, sefyllfaoedd mewn awdurdodau cyfagos a’r rhanbarth ehangach. Gallaf ddweud wrth yr Aelod bod John Davies, sydd yn arwain y grŵp cynghori sydd newydd gyhoeddi galwad am dystiolaeth, yn edrych ar gyflenwi a strwythurau. Bydd gwaith y grŵp yn cyfrannu at y Papur Gwyn a’r ddeddfwriaeth ar gynllunio yng Nghymru.

William Powell: In recent years, the Brecon Beacons National Park Authority has adopted an innovative approach to mitigating officer workload, particularly when dealing with major applications, as well as to better engage with local communities. In the case of housing developments of over 30 units on brownfield and greenfield sites, a comprehensive planning brief has often been required up front, funded by the proposed developer. Does the Minister back this approach?

William Powell: Yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf, mae Awdurdod Parc Cenedlaethol Bannau Brycheiniog wedi mabwysiadu dull arloesol o liniaru llwyth gwaith swyddogion, yn enwedig wrth ymdrin â cheisiadau mawr, yn ogystal ag ymgysylltu’n well â chymunedau lleol. Yn achos datblygiadau tai o dros 30 o unedau ar safleoedd tir llwyd a thir glas, yn aml, mae gofyn am friff cynllunio cynhwysfawr, a ariennir gan y datblygwr arfaethedig ymlaen llaw. A yw’r Gweinidog yn cefnogi’r dull hwn?

John Griffiths: As I intimated earlier in answering previous questions, the way that the planning process works in Wales is driven locally. It is based on local development plans and local planning authorities. So, although other material considerations and national planning policy are always important, there is a considerable amount of scope for local planning authorities to adopt what they consider to be best practice. We always look to spread that best practice between local planning authorities in Wales.

John Griffiths: Fel y gwneuthum grybwyll yn gynharach wrth ateb cwestiynau blaenorol, mae’r ffordd y mae’r broses gynllunio’n gweithio yng Nghymru’n cael ei benderfynu’n lleol. Mae’n seiliedig ar gynlluniau datblygu lleol ac awdurdodau cynllunio lleol. Felly, er bod polisi cynllunio cenedlaethol ac ystyriaethau perthnasol eraill bob amser yn bwysig, mae cryn dipyn o le i awdurdodau cynllunio lleol i fabwysiadu’r hyn y maent yn ei ystyried yn arfer gorau. Rydym bob amser yn edrych i ledaenu’r arferion gorau hynny rhwng awdurdodau cynllunio lleol yng Nghymru.

William Powell: Thank you, Minister, for that answer. I will move now to a slightly different issue. Under the former Deputy Prime Minister, John Prescott, a pilot project was carried out of planning agent accreditation in certain authorities in England. What is the Minister’s view on such agent accreditation schemes, currently being contemplated by some Welsh local authorities, and their potential impact on planning officer workload?

William Powell: Diolch ichi, Weinidog, am yr ateb hwnnw. Symudaf yn awr at fater ychydig yn wahanol. O dan y cyn-Ddirprwy Brif Weinidog, John Prescott, cynhaliwyd prosiect peilot o achredu asiantau cynllunio mewn rhai awdurdodau yn Lloegr. Beth yw barn y Gweinidog ar gynlluniau achredu asiantau o’r fath, sy’n cael eu hystyried ar hyn o bryd gan rai o awdurdodau lleol Cymru, a’u heffaith posibl ar lwyth gwaith swyddog cynllunio?

John Griffiths: I would not readily disagree with my comrade John Prescott. It is a rather risky thing to do. [Laughter.] May I say to the Member that we are looking at these developments with considerable interest and we are talking, as we always do, to planning officers and local planning authorities right across Wales? We look at developments elsewhere with great interest as well, including those over the border. Working together, I hope that we will arrive at the best solutions.

John Griffiths: Ni fyddwn yn anghytuno’n rhwydd gyda fy nghyfaill John Prescott. Mae hynny’n rhywbeth braidd yn beryglus i’w wneud. [Chwerthin.] A gaf ddweud wrth yr Aelod ein bod yn edrych ar y datblygiadau hyn gyda chryn ddiddordeb, ac yr ydym yn siarad, fel yr ydym bob amser, â swyddogion cynllunio ac awdurdodau cynllunio lleol ledled Cymru? Rydym yn edrych ar ddatblygiadau mewn mannau eraill gyda diddordeb mawr hefyd, gan gynnwys y rhai dros y ffin. Wrth weithio gyda’n gilydd, gobeithiaf y byddwn yn cyrraedd yr atebion gorau.

Cŵn Peryglus

Dangerous Dogs

6. Rebecca Evans: A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am nifer yr achosion pan mae cŵn peryglus a ‘chŵn statws’ wedi ymosod ar bobl yng Nghymru dros y pum mlynedd diwethaf. OAQ(4)0061(ESD)

6. Rebecca Evans: Will the Minister make a statement on the number of ‘status’ and dangerous dogs incidents in Wales over the past five years. OAQ(4)0061(ESD)

John Griffiths: I thank Rebecca Evans for that question. The figures obtained from the Department of Justice are based on the number of defendants proceeded against at magistrates courts in Wales under the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991, sections 3(1) and 3(3), for the five years up to 2010. These figures are open to different interpretations in terms of their robustness. Perhaps I will write to the Member setting out some of the issues involved. 

John Griffiths: Diolch i Rebecca Evans am y cwestiwn hwnnw. Mae’r ffigurau a gafwyd gan yr Adran Gyfiawnder yn seiliedig ar y nifer o ddiffynyddion gafodd eu herlyn yn llysoedd yr ynadon yng Nghymru o dan y Ddeddf Cŵn Peryglus 1991, adrannau 3(1) a 3(3), ar gyfer y pum mlynedd hyd at 2010. Mae’r ffigurau hyn yn agored i ddehongliadau gwahanol o ran eu cadernid. Efallai y gwnaf ysgrifennu at yr Aelod gan nodi rhai o’r materion dan sylw.

Rebecca Evans: Minister, there is a need to develop co-ordinated and targeted education programmes to assist in persuading dog owners to be more responsible and for dogs to be bred more responsibly. Will the Minister undertake a review of current legislation and practice with a view to increasing the focus on prevention and enabling enforcement agencies to undertake an early intervention, as well as seeking to deliver improved public safety and animal welfare standards and reducing costs?

Rebecca Evans: Weinidog, mae angen datblygu rhaglenni addysg gydlynol sydd wedi’u targedu i helpu i ddarbwyllo perchnogion cŵn i fod yn fwy cyfrifol ac er mwyn i gŵn gael eu bridio’n fwy cyfrifol. A wnaiff y Gweinidog gynnal adolygiad o ddeddfwriaeth ac arfer bresennol, gyda golwg ar gynyddu’r ffocws ar atal a galluogi asiantaethau gorfodi i gynnal ymyriad cynnar, yn ogystal â cheisio sicrhau gwell diogelwch cyhoeddus a safonau lles anifeiliaid a lleihau costau?

John Griffiths: My officials and our lawyers are already considering issues around dealing with irresponsible dog ownership in Wales. Members will be familiar with the work on the draft dog breeding regulations. I have said previously that I would like very much to take forward a programme of microchipping all dogs in Wales. When it comes to the legislation on dangerous dogs, I am very keen to keep abreast of developments made by the UK Government to look at what is devolved and what is not in order to ensure that, as a whole, we can take forward a comprehensive approach. The first code of practice on dogs in the UK was implemented in Wales in 2007, so we have done some good things, and we need to build on that work.

John Griffiths: Mae fy swyddogion a’n cyfreithwyr eisoes yn ystyried materion yn ymwneud â delio â pherchnogaeth cŵn anghyfrifol yng Nghymru. Bydd Aelodau’n gyfarwydd â gwaith ar y rheoliadau drafft ar fridio cŵn. Yr wyf wedi dweud o’r blaen yr hoffwn yn fawr iawn i fwrw ymlaen â rhaglen o osod microsglodion ar bob ci yng Nghymru. Pan ddaw i’r ddeddfwriaeth ar gŵn peryglus, yr wyf yn awyddus iawn i gadw llygad ar y datblygiadau a wneir gan Lywodraeth y DU i edrych ar yr hyn sydd wedi’i ddatganoli ac sydd heb ei ddatganoli er mwyn sicrhau, yn gyffredinol, y gallwn ddatblygu dull gweithredu cynhwysfawr. Roedd y cod ymarfer cyntaf ar gŵn yn y DU wedi’i weithredu yng Nghymru yn 2007, felly, yr ydym wedi gwneud rhai pethau da, ac mae angen inni adeiladu ar y gwaith hwnnw.

Suzy Davies: Minister, as there has been a 5,000 per cent increase in the number of incidents involving dangerous dogs in recent years, I am pleased to hear you say that you are at least open to the idea of reviewing that further. However, are you confident that the legislation coming through the Assembly to address the role of puppy farmers, which are primarily located in west Wales, will also be effective against unscrupulous underground urban breeders of so-called ‘status dogs’, some of which can become dangerous if they are not properly treated? During my visit to the Dogs Trust in Pen-y-Fai a few months ago, I was told that there had been a huge increase—both locally and nationally—in the number of Staffordshire terriers that are being dumped on the streets because of over-breeding by such operators and because the fashion in status dogs changes.

Suzy Davies: Weinidog, gan y bu cynnydd o 5,000 y cant yn nifer y digwyddiadau’n ymwneud â chŵn peryglus yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf, yr wyf yn falch o’ch clywed yn dweud eich bod o leiaf yn agored i’r syniad o adolygu hynny ymhellach. Fodd bynnag, a ydych yn hyderus y bydd y ddeddfwriaeth sy’n dod drwy’r Cynulliad i fynd i’r afael â rôl ffermwyr cŵn bach, a leolwyd yn bennaf yng ngorllewin Cymru, hefyd yn effeithiol yn erbyn bridwyr trefol tanddaearol diegwyddor o’r hyn a elwir yn ‘gŵn statws’, y gall rhai ohonynt fod yn beryglus os na chânt eu trin yn briodol? Yn ystod fy ymweliad i’r Ymddiriedolaeth Cŵn ym Mhen-y-Fai ychydig fisoedd yn ôl, dywedwyd wrthyf y bu cynnydd enfawr—yn lleol ac yn genedlaethol—yn nifer y daeargi Swydd Stafford sy’n cael eu gadael ar y strydoedd oherwydd gor-fridio gan weithredwyr o’r fath ac oherwydd bod y ffasiwn o ran cŵn statws yn  newid.

John Griffiths: I agree with the remarks made by the Member. The emphasis on the deed not the breed, as it is put, is very important. Once you identify particular dog breeds as being dangerous, it unfortunately leads to some people wanting to own them, rather than not wanting to, and they become a fashion accessory or a status symbol, to a certain extent. Therefore, it is important that that is looked at. This has to be done at a UK level under that aspect of the dangerous dogs legislation. However, in terms of our draft dog breeding regulations, we need to get the balance right between legitimate operations that really do adequately address welfare concerns and those that do not, and the sort of operations that the Member mentioned. I know that the Communication Workers Union, for example, which I will meet to discuss these issues soon, is very concerned about the lack of protection in relation to dog attacks on private property. That is another very important aspect of this matter.

John Griffiths: Cytunaf â’r sylwadau a wnaed gan yr Aelod. Mae’r pwyslais ar y weithred nid y brîd, fel y dywedir, yn bwysig iawn. Unwaith y byddwch yn nodi bod bridiau ci penodol yn beryglus, yn anffodus, mae’n arwain at rai pobl yn eisiau eu perchen, yn hytrach na pheidio ag eisiau, ac maent yn dod yn ffasiynol neu’n symbol statws, i ryw raddau. Felly, mae’n bwysig bod hynny’n cael ei ystyried. Mae’n rhaid gwneud hyn ar lefel DU o dan yr agwedd honno ar y ddeddfwriaeth cŵn peryglus. Fodd bynnag, o ran ein rheoliadau drafft ar fridio cŵn, mae angen inni gael y cydbwysedd cywir rhwng y gweithrediadau cyfreithlon hynny sydd wir yn cymryd sylw digonol o bryderon lles a’r rhai nad ydynt, a’r math o weithrediadau y soniodd yr Aelod amdanynt. Gwn fod yr Undeb Gweithwyr Cyfathrebu, er enghraifft, y byddaf yn cyfarfod i drafod y materion hyn yn fuan, yn bryderus iawn am y diffyg diogelwch mewn perthynas ag ymosodiadau gan gŵn ar eiddo preifat. Mae hynny’n agwedd bwysig arall ar y mater hwn.

Jocelyn Davies: Although the focus is normally on the animal, dangerous dogs are usually owned by irresponsible owners, and they must also be brought to book. You will be aware, Minister, of the recent horrific attack by a status dog on a woman and her pet in Pill in Newport, in the Presiding Officer’s constituency. You mentioned earlier that you support the idea of microchipping dogs; will you commit to making that compulsory and will you bring in legislation to impose it?

Jocelyn Davies: Er bod y ffocws fel arfer ar yr anifail, perchnogion anghyfrifol sydd fel arfer yn berchen ar gŵn peryglus, a rhaid iddynt hwy hefyd cael eu dwyn i gyfrif. Byddwch yn ymwybodol, Weinidog, am yr ymosodiad erchyll diweddar gan gi statws ar fenyw a’i hanifail anwes ym Mhillgwenlli yng Nghasnewydd, yn etholaeth y Llywydd. Soniasoch yn gynharach eich bod yn cefnogi’r syniad o microsglodynnu cŵn; a wnewch ymrwymo i wneud hynny’n orfodol ac a wnewch chi gyflwyno deddfwriaeth i’w orfodi?

John Griffiths: I can tell Jocelyn Davies that that is my intention. I would like to see a statutory compulsory microchipping system in Wales. I have asked officials to work on that. Unfortunately, we see many examples of attacks by dangerous dogs and this matter must be dealt with.

John Griffiths: Gallaf ddweud wrth Jocelyn Davies mai dyna yw fy mwriad. Hoffwn weld system statudol a gorfodol o osod microsglodion yng Nghymru. Yr wyf wedi gofyn i swyddogion i weithio ar hynny. Yn anffodus, rydym yn gweld nifer o enghreifftiau o ymosodiadau gan gŵn peryglus a rhaid inni ddelio â’r mater hwn.

Julie Morgan: I would like to draw the Minister’s attention to a very distressing incident that took place in Llandaff North in my constituency. The six-year-old son of one of my constituents, Dilwar Ali, was badly bitten on his face by a dog that went into the garden, then into the house, and then pursued him to his bedroom. It was an absolutely horrific attack. What can we do to prevent something like that from happening again?

Julie Morgan: Hoffwn dynnu sylw’r Gweinidog at ddigwyddiad trallodus iawn yn Ystum Taf yn fy etholaeth. Cafodd mab chwe blwydd oed i un o’m hetholwyr, Dilwar Ali, ei frathu’n wael ar ei wyneb gan gi a aeth i’r ardd, yna i mewn i’r tŷ, ac yna ei ddilyn ef i’w ystafell wely. Yr oedd yn ymosodiad hollol erchyll. Beth y gallwn ei wneud i atal rhywbeth tebyg rhag digwydd eto?

John Griffiths: We obviously need much more responsible dog ownership. I hope that some of the matters that I have mentioned, such as compulsory microchipping and dealing with gaps in legislation such as the Dangerous Dogs Act and the dog breeding regulations, will work towards that. The Dogs Trust, the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, local authorities and the police need to work together in order to ensure that the right messages are communicated. We have some good pilot projects relating to microchipping, neutering and offering advice—one of which is in Cardiff. So, work is going on in terms of community engagement, and I think that that is another important part of the overall picture.

John Griffiths: Mae’n amlwg bod arnom angen perchnogion cŵn llawer mwy cyfrifol. Gobeithiaf fod rhai o’r materion yr wyf wedi’u crybwyll, megis microsglodion gorfodol ac ymdrin â bylchau yn y ddeddfwriaeth megis y Ddeddf Cŵn Peryglus a’r rheoliadau bridio cŵn, yn gweithio tuag at hynny. Mae angen i’r Ymddiriedolaeth Cŵn, y Gymdeithas Frenhinol er Atal Creulondeb i Anifeiliaid, awdurdodau lleol a’r heddlu i weithio gyda’i gilydd er mwyn sicrhau bod y negeseuon cywir yn cael eu cyfleu. Mae gennym rai prosiectau peilot da sy’n ymwneud â gosod microsglodion, ysbaddu a chynnig cyngor—ac un ohonynt yng Nghaerdydd. Felly, mae gwaith yn mynd rhagddo o ran ymgysylltu cymunedol, a chredaf fod hynny’n rhan bwysig arall o’r darlun cyffredinol.

Allyriadau Diwydiannol

Industrial Emissions

7. Mark Isherwood: Beth mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i fonitro allyriadau diwydiannol. OAQ(4)0067(ESD)

7. Mark Isherwood: What is the Welsh Government doing to monitor industrial emissions. OAQ(4)0067(ESD)

John Griffiths: I thank Mark Isherwood for that question. We oversee the implementation of the environmental permitting regime, which requires the Environment Agency and local authorities to regulate industry compliance with environmental permits that set limits and require monitoring of industrial emissions. The regulators report these emissions through the pollution inventory and European pollutant release and transfer register.

John Griffiths: Diolchaf i Mark Isherwood am y cwestiwn hwnnw. Rydym yn goruchwylio gweithrediad y gyfundrefn trwyddedu amgylcheddol, sy’n ei gwneud yn ofynnol i Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd ac awdurdodau lleol i reoleiddio cydymffurfio’r diwydiant â thrwyddedau amgylcheddol sy’n gosod terfynau ac yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i fonitro allyriadau diwydiannol. Mae’r rheoleiddwyr yn adrodd yr allyriadau hyn drwy’r rhestr llygredd a’r gofrestr Ewropeaidd ar ryddhau a throsglwyddo llygryddion.

Mark Isherwood: I am sure that you are aware that the most dangerous emissions in terms of their health impact are the smaller microparticulates of PM2.5 and below. However, I am told that these are not monitored downwind of incinerators and co-incinerators in Wales. The Chief Medical Officer for Wales has stated that death rates for children under the age of one are associated with deprivation, but according to ward-level analysis, a number of counties across Wales have shown that the highest rates of infant mortality are in wards where there is less deprivation, and that the least deprived wards have a higher rate of infant mortality than the most deprived wards. Do you therefore agree that action should be taken, and will you ensure that action is taken, to do that monitoring at ward level and to bring in appropriate monitors so that we can monitor for those microparticulates downwind of incinerators?

Mark Isherwood: Yr wyf yn siŵr eich bod yn ymwybodol mai’r allyriadau mwyaf peryglus o ran eu heffaith ar iechyd yw’r microgronynnau sy’n llai na PM2.5. Fodd bynnag, dywedir wrthyf nad yw’r rhain yn cael eu monitro o dan wynt llosgyddion a chyd-losgyddion yng Nghymru. Mae Prif Swyddog Meddygol Cymru wedi datgan bod cyfraddau marwolaeth ar gyfer plant o dan flwydd oed yn gysylltiedig ag amddifadedd, ond yn ôl dadansoddiad ar lefel ward, mae nifer o siroedd ar draws Cymru wedi dangos bod y cyfraddau uchaf o ran marwolaethau babanod yn wardiau lle mae llai o amddifadedd, ac mae gan y wardiau lleiaf difreintiedig gyfradd uwch o ran marwolaethau babanod na’r wardiau mwyaf difreintiedig. A ydych yn cytuno felly y dylid cymryd camau, ac a fyddwch yn sicrhau y cymerir camau, i wneud y monitro hynny ar lefel ward ac i ddod â monitro priodol i mewn fel y gallwn fonitro ar gyfer y microgronynnau hynny o dan wynt llosgyddion?

John Griffiths: What I can say to the Member is that there are, of course, many statutory agencies tasked with protecting public health and with monitoring emissions. When it comes to energy from waste, permits are required from the Environment Agency, and they will only be provided if a plant meets the necessary standards. Of course, there is monitoring and regulation thereafter. We had a statement from the Health Protection Agency with regard to energy from waste, in which it states that there are no significant adverse health impacts. So, there are agencies tasked with protecting public health whose advice we must take. Monitoring does take place by the Environment Agency and local authorities with regard to air pollution, and of course European legislation is significant.

John Griffiths: Yr hyn y gallaf ei ddweud wrth yr Aelod yw, wrth gwrs, bod nifer o asiantaethau statudol â’r dasg o ddiogelu iechyd y cyhoedd a monitro allyriadau. Pan ddaw i ynni o wastraff, mae angen trwyddedau gan Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd, a byddant ddim ond yn cael eu darparu os bydd ffatri yn bodloni’r safonau angenrheidiol. Wrth gwrs, mae monitro a rheoleiddio wedi hynny. Cawsom ddatganiad gan yr Asiantaeth Ddiogelu Iechyd o ran ynni o wastraff, a ddywedodd nad oes unrhyw effeithiau iechyd andwyol sylweddol. Felly, ceir asiantaethau sydd â’r dasg o ddiogelu iechyd y cyhoedd a rhaid inni ystyried eu cyngor. Mae monitro yn cael ei wneud gan Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd ac awdurdodau lleol o ran llygredd yn yr aer, ac wrth gwrs mae deddfwriaeth Ewropeaidd sylweddol.

I have some figures, which I could perhaps provide to the Member, that show that air pollution, including small particulate matter, has reduced significantly over recent years. I think that all Members would agree that that is very welcome indeed.

Mae gennyf rai ffigurau, y gallaf, efallai, eu roi i’r Aelod, sy’n dangos bod llygredd aer, gan gynnwys gronynnau bach, wedi gostwng yn sylweddol dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Credaf y byddai pob Aelod yn cytuno bod hynny wir yn rhywbeth i’w groesawu.

Bethan Jenkins: A yw Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gwneud unrhyw ymchwil, neu a yw’n bwriadau gwneud unrhyw ymchwil, i’r effaith y gallai creu’r orsaf fiomas sydd wedi ei chynnig ar gyfer cwm Llynfi ei chael ar y lefelau llygredd yn ardal Port Talbot sydd gerllaw? A fedrai hwn olygu byddai’r rheoliadau ar lefelau llygredd yn cael eu torri o ganlyniad i unrhyw ddatblygiad newydd gerllaw a fyddai’n ychwanegu at y broblem yn yr ardal hon?

Bethan Jenkins: Has the Welsh Government done any research, or does it intend to do any research, on the impact that creating the biomass station proposed for the Llynfi valley could have on the levels of pollution in the area of Port Talbot which is nearby? Could this mean that regulations on pollution levels could be gone against as a result of any new developments nearby that would add to the problem in this area?

John Griffiths: Llywydd, I am not able to comment on any specific planning matter, given my ministerial responsibilities.

John Griffiths: Lywydd, ni allaf roi sylwadau ar unrhyw fater cynllunio penodol, o ystyried fy nghyfrifoldebau gweinidogol.

The Presiding Officer: Question 8, OAQ(4)0056(ESD), has been transferred for written answer.

Y Llywydd: Mae cwestiwn 8, OAQ(4)0056(ESD), wedi’i drosglwyddo i’w ateb yn ysgrifenedig.

Cymoedd De Cymru

South Wales Valleys

9. Lynne Neagle: Pa gamau y mae’r Gweinidog yn eu cymryd i wella’r amgylchedd yng Nghymoedd De Cymru. OAQ(4)0063(ESD)

9. Lynne Neagle: What steps is the Minister taking to improve the environment in the South Wales Valleys. OAQ(4)0063(ESD)

John Griffiths: I thank Lynne Neagle for that question. I am committed to fulfilling, across Wales, the commitments that are set out for my portfolio in the programme for government. These include putting sustainable development at the heart of Government and integrating the way in which we manage and regulate our use of land, sea, air and water.

John Griffiths: Diolchaf i Lynne Neagle am y cwestiwn hwnnw. Yr wyf wedi ymrwymo i gyflawni, ar draws Cymru, yr ymrwymiadau a nodir yn fy mhortffolio yn y rhaglen lywodraethu. Mae’r rhain yn cynnwys rhoi datblygu cynaliadwy wrth wraidd Llywodraeth ac integreiddio’r ffordd rydym yn rheoli ac yn rheoleiddio ein defnydd o dir, môr, aer a dŵr.

Lynne Neagle: As you may be aware, I have been working with communities in Torfaen for many years to tackle the scourge of illegal off-road biking. It is an activity that causes a huge amount of disturbance and frustration for local residents, as well as doing irreversible damage to wildlife and important habitats on our hillsides and common land, in the Valleys and across Wales. I realise that this is an issue that cuts across the portfolios of several Welsh Government Ministers, but will you personally pledge to do everything you can in the months ahead to work towards a significant reduction in illegal off-road biking, which causes so much misery and damage to communities across Wales?

Lynne Neagle: Fel y gwyddoch, bûm yn gweithio gyda chymunedau yn Nhor-faen am flynyddoedd lawer i fynd i’r afael â beicio oddi ar y ffordd yn anghyfreithlon. Mae’n weithgaredd sy’n achosi aflonyddwch a rhwystredigaeth fawr iawn i drigolion lleol, yn ogystal â gwneud niwed parhaol i fywyd gwyllt a chynefinoedd pwysig ar ein bryniau a thir comin, yn y Cymoedd a ledled Cymru. Sylweddolaf fod hwn yn fater sy’n torri ar draws portffolios sawl Gweinidog Llywodraeth Cymru, ond a wnewch chi addo’n bersonol i wneud popeth o fewn eich gallu yn y misoedd i ddod i weithio tuag at ostyngiad sylweddol mewn beicio oddi ar y ffordd yn anghyfreithlon, sydd yn achosi cymaint o boen a difrod i gymunedau ledled Cymru?

John Griffiths: I very much recognise the good work done by the Member for Torfaen over a number of years on this issue, championing the concerns of her constituents.

John Griffiths: Cydnabyddaf yn fawr iawn y gwaith da a wneir gan yr Aelod dros Dor-faen dros nifer o flynyddoedd ar y mater hwn, yn hyrwyddo pryderon ei hetholwyr.

3.00 p.m.

I am aware that, across Wales, there are many communities and access groups concerned about off-roading activities. The illegality of off-roading is a matter for the police, and I know that a number of enforcement operations have been held successfully across Wales. They work best when conducted in co-operation with other agencies, landowners and user groups. There are powers available to the police under the Police Reform Act 2002, and there is other related legislation as well. The work with community safety partnerships and the Wales off-road steering group has been important in pulling efforts together. I am committed to working with all of those organisations to ensure that we improve our services to address these concerns.

Yr wyf yn ymwybodol bod, ledled Cymru, llawer o gymunedau a grwpiau mynediad sy’n bryderus ynghylch gweithgareddau oddi ar y ffordd. Mater i’r heddlu yw anghyfreithlondeb gyrru oddi ar y ffordd, a gwn fod nifer o weithrediadau gorfodi llwyddiannus wedi’u cynnal ledled Cymru. Maent yn gweithio orau pan gânt eu cynnal ar y cyd ag asiantaethau eraill, tirfeddianwyr a grwpiau defnyddwyr. Mae pwerau ar gael i’r heddlu dan Ddeddf Diwygio’r Heddlu 2002, ac mae deddfwriaeth gysylltiedig arall yn ogystal. Bu’r gwaith gyda phartneriaethau diogelwch cymunedol a grŵp llywio gyrru oddi ar y ffordd Cymru yn bwysig wrth gyfuno ymdrechion. Yr wyf wedi ymrwymo i weithio gyda’r holl sefydliadau hynny i sicrhau ein bod yn gwella ein gwasanaethau i ymateb i’r pryderon hyn.

William Graham: Minister, in terms of improving the environment of our Valleys, will you join me in acknowledging the work undertaken by the Environment Agency, particularly with projects such as the removal of the Kentchurch weir? This has enabled the restoration of natural river connectivity and functioning almost to the source of the river, which was previously prevented by the weir. This has implications both for the aquatic environment and for angling.

William Graham: Weinidog, o ran gwella amgylchedd ein Cymoedd, a ymunwch â mi i gydnabod y gwaith a wnaed gan Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd, yn arbennig gyda phrosiectau megis cael gwared ar gored Kentchurch? Mae hyn wedi galluogi adfer cysylltedd afon naturiol a gweithrediad bron i ffynhonnell yr afon, a rwystrwyd o’r blaen gan y gored. Mae gan hyn oblygiadau ar gyfer yr amgylchedd dyfrol a physgota.

John Griffiths: I agree that we have seen a great deal of improvement in water quality in Wales. By removing that weir, we have given 150 km of upstream water bodies a better chance of achieving good ecological status as part of the water framework directive. That is important progress and should be recognised.

John Griffiths: Cytunaf ein bod wedi gweld gwelliant mawr yn ansawdd dŵr yng Nghymru. Drwy gael gwared ar y gored, rhoddwyd 150 km o gyrff dŵr i fyny’r afon siawns well o sicrhau statws ecolegol da fel rhan o’r gyfarwyddeb fframwaith dŵr. Mae hynny’n gynnydd pwysig, a dylid ei gydnabod.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Weinidog, tra’n cytuno â’r hyn mae Lynne Neagle a William Graham wedi’i ddweud ynglŷn ag achosion unigol, a ydych yn cytuno mai gwarcheidwaid naturiol yr amgylchedd yng Nghymru yw aelodau’r gymuned amaethyddol? A dderbyniwch, Weinidog, bod y gymuned amaethyddol yn ddrwgdybus o’ch ymrwymiad yn dilyn eich methiant i ddod i benderyfniad cyflym ar TB mewn gwartheg? A wnewch gydnabod y gwaith mae’r gymuned yn ei wneud yn gwarchod ein hamgylchedd, a rhoi ymrwymiad i’w chefnogi hyd yr eithaf yn y cyd-destun economaidd sydd yn ei hwynebu? 

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Minister, while agreeing with what Lynne Neagle and William Graham have said about individual cases, do you agree that the natural guardians of the Welsh environment are the members of the agricultural community? Do you accept, Minister, that the agricultural community is suspicious of your commitment, following your failure to come to a quick decision on bovine TB? Will you recognise the work that the community is doing in safeguarding our environment, and commit to supporting it fully in the current economic climate?

John Griffiths: I reassure the Member—if he finds that necessary—that the Welsh Government is committed to working with the agricultural community and landowners, and understands what those players can bring to the table with regard to many of its policies, such as the natural environment framework. On bovine TB, we have made it clear for several months that we hoped to have the report available in late autumn—we are there now—and we will then give it full consideration before coming back to Plenary and setting out the way forward.   

John Griffiths: Sicrhaf yr Aelod—os yw e’n credu bod hynny’n angenrheidiol—bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ymrwymo i weithio gyda’r gymuned amaethyddol a thirfeddianwyr, ac yn deall beth y gall y chwaraewyr hynny ei gyfrannu o ran llawer o’i pholisïau, megis y fframwaith amgylchedd naturiol. Ar TB mewn gwartheg, rydym wedi dweud yn glir ers sawl mis ein bod yn gobeithio y bydd yr adroddiad ar gael yn hwyr yn yr hydref—yr ydym yno yn awr—ac yna byddwn yn rhoi ystyriaeth lawn iddo cyn dod yn ôl i’r Cyfarfod Llawn a gosod y ffordd ymlaen.

John Griffiths: We have held a process over several months to examine the business case. It has been the subject of extensive external review. It has involved staff from the three bodies, trade unions and Assembly officials. I am confident that it has been a robust and proper process to deal with all of the issues involved. As we move forward, it is important that we have a full consultation, and I am happy to give an assurance that that will take place.

John Griffiths: Rydym wedi cynnal proses dros nifer o fisoedd i archwilio’r achos busnes. Mae wedi bod yn destun adolygiad allanol helaeth. Mae wedi cynnwys staff o’r tri chorff, undebau llafur a swyddogion y Cynulliad. Yr wyf yn hyderus ei bod wedi bod yn broses gadarn a phriodol i ddelio â phob un o’r materion dan sylw. Wrth inni symud ymlaen, mae’n bwysig bod gennym ymgynghoriad llawn, ac yr wyf yn hapus i roi sicrwydd y bydd hynny’n digwydd.

When it comes to financial savings, a big part of the case is that substantial savings will be freed-up over the long-term for front-line delivery. Part of those savings is about the ability of Wales to provide its own reservoir of experience, knowledge and expertise rather than buying-in from across the border. That is an important gain from a single environment body.

Pan ddaw i arbedion ariannol, rhan fawr o’r achos yw y byddai arbedion sylweddol yn cael eu rhyddhau dros y tymor hir ar gyfer y cyflenwi ar y rheng flaen. Mae rhan o’r arbedion hynny ynglŷn â gallu Cymru i ddarparu ei chronfa o brofiad, gwybodaeth ac arbenigedd yn hytrach na phrynu i mewn dros y ffin. Mae hynny’n ganlyniad pwysig gan un corff amgylcheddol.

Angela Burns: Minister, thank you for your answer to Simon Thomas. When you looked at the business case and evaluated the financial aspects and potential job losses of the merger, what parts of the business case dealt with the environmental targets of Wales? Given that we are failing to achieve our environmental targets, I have real concerns about how moving from three specialised bodies to one will improve the achievement of our environmental and biodiversity targets, as set by Europe. What part did they play in that business case?

Angela Burns: Weinidog, diolch ichi am eich ateb i Simon Thomas. Wrth ichi edrych ar yr achos busnes a gwerthuso agweddau ariannol a diswyddiadau posibl yr uniad, pa ran o’r achos busnes a oedd yn ymwneud â thargedau amgylcheddol yng Nghymru? O gofio ein bod yn methu â chyrraedd ein targedau amgylcheddol, mae gennyf bryderon gwirioneddol ynghylch sut fydd symud o’r tri chorff arbenigol i un yn gwella cyflawniad ein targedau amgylcheddol a bioamrywiaeth, fel y nodir gan Ewrop. Pa ran y gwnaethant chwarae yn yr achos busnes hwnnw?  

John Griffiths: I can tell the Member that the environmental bodies in Wales are supportive of the move to a single environment body, and to the development of a natural environment framework, because they provide a much more integrated approach that pulls together all aspects of the environment in sustainable development. I am confident that the business case stacks up in hard facts and figures, but also in environmental objectives.

John Griffiths: Gallaf ddweud wrth yr Aelod bod y cyrff amgylcheddol yng Nghymru yn gefnogol o’r symud i un corff amgylcheddol, ac i ddatblygu fframwaith amgylchedd naturiol, oherwydd maent yn darparu dull llawer mwy integredig sy’n dwyn ynghyd pob agwedd ar yr amgylchedd mewn datblygu cynaliadwy. Yr wyf yn hyderus bod yr achos busnes yn gwneud synnwyr o ran ffeithiau caled a ffigurau, ond hefyd o ran amcanion amgylcheddol.

Peter Black: Minister, you will know that there is concern in the forestry sector about this merger, particularly because the Forestry Commission is at the forefront of the development of biomass heating in Wales, with groundbreaking and highly successful initiatives such as the wood energy business scheme. Can you give assurances that the focus on this particular side of the business will not be lost if the Forestry Commission is subsumed into a new single body that has an emphasis on environmental protection?

Peter Black: Weinidog, byddwch yn gwybod bod pryder yn y sector coedwigaeth am yr uniad hwn, yn arbennig oherwydd bod y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth ar flaen y gad yn datblygu systemau gwresogi biomas yng Nghymru, gyda mentrau arloesol a llwyddiannus iawn fel y cynllun busnes ynni pren. A allwch roi sicrwydd na chollir y ffocws ar yr ochr arbennig hon o’r busnes os yw’r Comisiwn Coedwigaeth yn ymgorffori i mewn i gorff sengl newydd sydd â phwyslais ar amddiffyn yr amgylchedd?

John Griffiths: I am pleased to give Peter Black an assurance on that front. As part of the business case and the work that has taken place and will take place, it will be a priority to ensure that all of the advantages of the Forestry Commission, including those that Peter Black mentions, are not just preserved but also built upon and enhanced.

John Griffiths: Yr wyf yn falch o roi sicrwydd i Peter Black yn hynny o beth. Fel rhan o’r achos busnes a’r gwaith sydd wedi’i wneud a chaiff ei wneud, bydd yn flaenoriaeth i sicrhau bod holl fanteision y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth, gan gynnwys y rheini y mae Peter Black yn sôn amdanynt, nid yn unig yn cael eu cadw ond hefyd yn cael eu hadeiladu arnynt a’u gwella.

Mark Isherwood: Given the recent Office for National Statistics figures showing that excess winter deaths in Wales are up by 11 per cent and that Wales has the highest winter mortality rate compared with all England’s regions, given that the nearly poor and those in social isolation in Wales do not qualify for the Welsh Government’s fuel poverty schemes, such as Nest, and given the critical need for the Welsh Government to respond to the UK consultation on the green deal energy company obligations, which opened last week on 23 November, why has the Welsh Government’s fuel poverty ministerial advisory group not met since August 2010, despite parallel groups in England and Scotland continuing?

Mark Isherwood: O ystyried ffigurau diweddar y Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol sy’n dangos bod marwolaethau gaeafol gormodol yng Nghymru’n codi o 11 y cant, a bod gan Gymru gyfradd marwolaethau uchaf y gaeaf o’i gymharu â phob rhanbarth Lloegr, o gofio nad yw’r rhai sydd bron yn dlawd a’r rhai sydd wedi’u hynysu’n gymdeithasol yng Nghymru’n gymwys ar gyfer cynlluniau tlodi tanwydd Llywodraeth Cymru, megis Nyth, ac o ystyried yr angen hanfodol i Lywodraeth Cymru i ymateb i ymgynghoriad y DU ar  rwymedigaethau cwmnïau ynni y fargen werdd, a agorodd yr wythnos diwethaf ar 23 Tachwedd, pam nad yw grŵp cynghori gweinidogol tlodi tanwydd Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cwrdd ers mis Awst 2010, er gwaethaf grwpiau cyfochrog yn Lloegr a’r Alban yn parhau?

John Griffiths: Fuel poverty is a very important part of general poverty in Wales, and they need to be joined up. That is what our Nest scheme seeks to do. It provides advice and assistance for all people in Wales, even if they do not qualify for the direct package of measures on income grounds. There are other possible ways of providing assistance, including energy company obligations, as the Member mentioned. The ministerial advisory group has done some important work, but I feel that it is now a better approach to tie-in fuel poverty with our general strategy to tackle poverty in Wales, which is being taken forward by my colleague Carl Sargeant. Therefore, we are knitting in the fuel poverty strategy in Wales with the general anti-poverty effort. When I have met with energy companies, they have made it clear to me that a great deal of the benefit from their outreach work has been from making those links. The uptake of benefits that people are entitled to had a twenty-fold greater benefit for people contacted through the companies’ outreach programmes than direct fuel poverty measures. That shows the importance of tying all of this together.

John Griffiths: Mae tlodi tanwydd yn rhan bwysig iawn o dlodi cyffredinol yng Nghymru, ac mae angen iddynt fod yn gydgysylltiedig. Dyna’r hyn y mae ein cynllun Nyth yn ceisio ei wneud. Mae’n darparu cyngor a chymorth i bawb yng Nghymru, hyd yn oed os nad ydynt yn gymwys ar gyfer y pecyn mesurau ar sail incwm uniongyrchol. Mae yna ffyrdd posibl eraill o ddarparu cymorth, gan gynnwys rhwymedigaethau cwmnïau ynni, fel y soniodd yr Aelod. Mae’r grŵp cynghori gweinidogol wedi gwneud gwaith pwysig, ond teimlaf ei bod bellach yn ddull gwell i gysylltu tlodi tanwydd â’n strategaeth gyffredinol i fynd i’r afael â thlodi yng Nghymru, sydd yn cael ei chymryd ymlaen gan fy nghyd-Aelod, Carl Sargeant. Felly, rydym yn gwau’r strategaeth tlodi tanwydd yng Nghymru gydag ymdrech gwrthdlodi cyffredinol. Pan gyfarfûm â chwmnïau ynni, maent wedi ei wneud yn glir i mi bod llawer iawn o’r buddion o ran eu gwaith allgymorth wedi dod o wneud y cysylltiadau hynny. O ran y defnydd o fudd-daliadau y mae gan bobl hawl iddynt, roedd ugain gwaith mwy o bobl a gysylltwyd â hwy drwy raglenni allgymorth cwmnïau yn cael budd, o gymharu â mesurau tlodi tanwydd uniongyrchol. Mae hynny’n dangos pwysigrwydd cysylltu hyn i gyd â’i gilydd.

Huw Lewis: What you say is true, and it does give me cause for concern. I will return to the Chamber with proposals about next year’s rent policy within a short period of time. However, I hear what you are saying. I am well aware that many people up and down Wales are facing a great deal of difficulty when it comes to household budgets, and I will bear that very much in mind.

Huw Lewis: Mae’r hyn a ddywedwch yn wir, ac yn achosi pryder imi. Byddaf yn dychwelyd i’r Siambr gyda chynigion am bolisi rhenti’r flwyddyn nesaf o fewn cyfnod byr o amser. Fodd bynnag, clywaf yr hyn yr ydych yn ei ddweud. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol iawn bod llawer o bobl ar hyd a lled Cymru yn wynebu cryn anhawster pan ddaw i gyllidebau aelwydydd, ac fe gadwaf hynny mewn cof.

Mark Isherwood: Given Welsh Government policy, as outlined by you, which means that local authority rents will have to rise at a higher rate than housing association rents until convergence is achieved, how do you respond to the concern expressed by some housing associations working with more vulnerable groups that the reduction in social housing grant funding in recent years has resulted in them increasingly having to rely on private finance, leading to higher rents, which are facing increased scrutiny from housing benefit departments?

Mark Isherwood: O ystyried polisi Llywodraeth Cymru, fel yr amlinellwyd gennych chi, sy’n golygu y bydd rhenti awdurdodau lleol yn gorfod codi ar gyfradd uwch na rhenti cymdeithasau tai tan y llwyddir i gydgyfeirio, sut ydych yn ymateb i’r pryder a fynegwyd gan rai cymdeithasau tai sy’n gweithio gyda grwpiau mwy diamddiffyn bod y lleihad mewn arian grant tai cymdeithasol yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf wedi golygu eu bod wedi gorfod dibynnu yn gynyddol ar gyllid preifat, gan arwain at renti uwch, sy’n wynebu craffu cynyddol gan adrannau budd-dal tai?

3.15 p.m.

More to the point, those higher housing association rents, in consequence of the reduced social housing grant, will further uplift council rents if convergence is to be achieved.

Yn fwy perthnasol, bydd y rhenti tai cymdeithasol uwch hynny, o ganlyniad i’r lleihad yn y grant tai cymdeithasol, yn cynyddu rhenti cyngor ymhellach os yw cyflawni’r cydgyfeirio hwnnw yn fwriad.

Huw Lewis: There is a difficult line to be trod here. It is not assisted—to understate the matter considerably—by the Westminster Government’s policies on housing benefit, which are still very difficult to quantify and will begin to cause many of the least well-off citizens of Wales considerable problems from next April. There is a historic problem with levels of council house rents in particular, which has, in part, some would say, led to disinvestment and, to some degree, may have led us into the issues surrounding poor quality housing that we are currently seeking to tackle, and have tackled very well across Wales over the last few years. There are difficult decisions to be made. I have postponed these until April 2013 to take full account of the enormous amount of consultation responses that were received as a result of the recent consultation on these issues.

Huw Lewis: Mae llinell anodd i’w throedio yn y fan hyn. Ni chaiff ei helpu—i danddatgan y mater yn sylweddol—gan bolisïau Llywodraeth San Steffan ar fudd-dal tai, sy’n dal i fod yn anodd iawn i’w meintioli ac a fydd yn dechrau achosi problemau sylweddol i ddinasyddion lleiaf cyfoethog Cymru o fis Ebrill nesaf ymlaen. Mae problem hanesyddol gyda lefelau rhenti tai cyngor yn benodol, sydd wedi, yn rhannol, byddai rhai yn ddweud, arwain at ddadfuddsoddiad ac, i ryw raddau, wedi ein harwain efallai at y materion o ran tai o ansawdd gwael yr ydym yn ceisio eu taclo ar hyn o bryd, ac wedi eu taclo’n dda iawn dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Mae penderfyniadau anodd i’w gwneud. Rwyf wedi gohirio’r rhain tan fis Ebrill 2013 er mwyn ystyried yn llawn nifer anferthol yr ymatebion a dderbyniwyd i’r ymgynghoriad diweddar ar y materion hyn. 

Suzy Davies: Thank you for that answer. I am sure that you recognise that cultural activity is fundamental to the regeneration of such places as Swansea. Do you think that Swansea or its hinterland would make an excellent location for an information technology and creative industries enterprise zone?

Suzy Davies: Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw. Rwy’n siŵr eich bod yn sylweddoli bod gweithgarwch diwylliannol yn sylfaenol i adfywio lleoedd fel Abertawe. A ydych chi o’r farn y byddai Abertawe neu ei chyffiniau yn lleoliad rhagorol i barth menter technoleg gwybodaeth a’r diwydiannau creadigol? 

Huw Lewis: That particular question would be best directed at another ministerial colleague. Once again, I do not think that anyone could accuse the Welsh Government of not recognising that, certainly with regard to Swansea, investment in cultural and creative activity and industries has been a leading thought and a guiding light, in many ways, with regard to our investment over the past few years, and it will continue to be.

Huw Lewis: Byddai’n well cyfeirio’r cwestiwn penodol hwnnw at Weinidog arall. Unwaith eto, nid wyf yn meddwl y gallai unrhyw un gyhuddo Llywodraeth Cymru o beidio â chydnabod, yn sicr mewn perthynas ag Abertawe, fod buddsoddiad mewn gweithgarwch diwylliannol a chreadigol wedi bod ar flaen ein meddwl ac yn sbardun, mewn sawl ffordd, o ran ein buddsoddiad dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, a bydd yn parhau i fod. 

Bethan Jenkins: Efallai eich bod yn ymwybodol bod taliadau’r Gymdeithas Hawliau Perfformio yn wahanol ar gyfer bandiau ac artistiaid rhwng Radio Wales a Radio Cymru. Mae’r taliadau Radio Cymru’n llai. Mae band o Abertawe, Yr Angen, wedi dweud wrthyf fod y system yn bychanu cerddoriaeth Gymraeg ac yn annog cerddorion i ganu drwy gyfrwng y Saesneg. Pa drafodaethau a allwch eu cael gyda PRS i fynd i’r afael â’r sefyllfa hon i sicrhau bod cydraddoldeb rhwng artistiaid sy’n dewis canu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg ac artistiaid sy’n dewis canu drwy gyfrwng y Saesneg?

Bethan Jenkins: You may be aware that Performing Rights Society payments are different for bands and artists between Radio Wales and Radio Cymru. Radio Cymru’s payments are less. A band from Swansea, Yr Angen, has told me that the system belittles Welsh music and encourages musicians to sing through the medium of English. What discussions can you have with the PRS to get to grips with this problem to ensure that there is equality between artists who choose to sing in Welsh and artists who choose to sing in English?

Huw Lewis: In Swansea, of course.

Huw Lewis: Yn Abertawe, wrth gwrs.

Bethan Jenkins: The band is from Swansea.

Bethan Jenkins: Mae’r band yn dod o Abertawe.

Huw Lewis: I thank Bethan Jenkins for the question. I suggest that she supplies me with further detail on this issue so that I might investigate it further.

Huw Lewis: Diolch i Bethan Jenkins am y cwestiwn. Awgrymaf ei bod hi’n rhoi rhagor o fanylion i mi ar y mater hwn fel fy mod yn gallu edrych ymhellach iddo.

Bethan Jenkins: I want to clarify that the band is from Swansea. Following on from that, other bands from Swansea and south Wales in general have raised with me the fact that BBC Introducing, the Radio 1 show, is going to be regionalised in Wales, as opposed to there being individual radio shows for the nations, as part of the BBC’s Delivering Quality First agenda. There will be a lobby in Parliament on 19 December, and I invite you to join that lobby in your capacity as Minister to show that Wales is against these changes. Many bands have made it big through this radio show and we want to support this campaign, which has been initiated on Facebook.

Bethan Jenkins: Rwyf eisiau egluro fod y band yn dod o Abertawe. Yn dilyn ymlaen o hynny, mae bandiau eraill o Abertawe a de Cymru yn gyffredinol wedi codi’r ffaith gyda mi y bydd y sioe Radio 1, BBC Introducing, yn cael ei rhanbartholi yng Nghymru, yn hytrach na bod sioeau radio unigol i’r cenhedloedd, fel rhan o agenda Delivering Quality First y BBC. Bydd lobi yn Senedd y DU ar 19 Rhagfyr, ac rwy’n eich gwahodd i ymuno â’r lobi hwnnw yn rhinwedd eich swydd fel Gweinidog i ddangos bod Cymru yn erbyn y newidiadau hyn. Mae nifer o fandiau wedi dod i amlygrwydd drwy’r sioe radio hon ac rydym eisiau cefnogi’r  ymgyrch hon, a gafodd ei dechrau ar Facebook.    

Huw Lewis: I am unaware of the Facebook campaign, but I will readily look into the issue if the Member is willing to write to me with further detail about the implications for Wales and Swansea in particular.

Huw Lewis: Nid wyf yn gwybod am yr ymgyrch Facebook, ond rwy’n barod i edrych ar y mater pe bai’r Aelod yn barod i ysgrifennu ataf gyda rhagor o fanylion am y goblygiadau i Gymru ac i Abertawe yn benodol.

Kenneth Skates: Minister, I was pleased to read the report of your recent visit to Stockholm, particularly the plans that you have to learn from the way that social housing and co-operative models are used in the Swedish housing sector. I note that around 20 per cent of the Swedish population lives in co-operative homes, but that this is a largely unexplored route to affordable home ownership in the UK. What effort is the Welsh Government making with the Welsh co-operative sector to provide young families in my constituency with a leg-up into decent homes that they would otherwise be unable to access?

Kenneth Skates: Weinidog, roeddwn yn falch o ddarllen adroddiad eich ymweliad diweddar â Stockholm, yn enwedig y cynlluniau i ddysgu o’r ffordd y caiff tai cymdeithasol a modelau cydweithredol eu defnyddio yn y sector tai yn Sweden. Nodaf fod tua 20 y cant o boblogaeth Sweden yn byw mewn cartrefi cydweithredol, ond nid yw’r ffordd honno o fod yn berchennog ar dŷ fforddiadwy wedi cael fawr o sylw yn y DU. Pa ymdrech y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei gwneud gyda’r sector cydweithredol yng Nghymru i roi hwb i deuluoedd ifanc yn fy etholaeth i feddu ar dai na fyddent fel arall yn gallu cael mynediad iddynt?   

Huw Lewis: I thank Ken Skates for that question. The commitment to developing co-operative housing here in Wales is part of our programme for government. I am determined to make it happen, and work has already started. We have brought together experts from the housing and co-operative sectors to look at how their expertise can develop a Welsh approach to co-operative housing. That includes considering demand, delivery and funding, as well as overcoming, through a housing Bill, any legislative barriers that might exist towards its creation. Just yesterday I was at a well-attended and inspiring event that explored ways of developing co-operative housing, and I am hoping that it can be delivered in both rural and urban parts of Wales. This is an important additional means—I stress that it is additional—of increasing the supply of affordable housing, in this case not for rent, but to own. I hope that it will help to draw in new sources of finance as we move forward.

Huw Lewis: Diolch i Ken Skates am y cwestiwn hwnnw. Mae’r ymrwymiad i ddatblygu tai cydweithredol yma yng Nghymru yn rhan o’n rhaglen lywodraethu. Rwy’n benderfynol o wireddu hynny, ac mae’r gwaith wedi dechrau’n barod. Rydym wedi dod ag arbenigwyr ynghyd o’r sector tai a’r sector cydweithredol i edrych ar sut y gall eu harbenigedd ddatblygu dull Cymreig o ran tai cydweithredol. Mae hynny’n cynnwys ystyried y galw, darparu ac arian, yn ogystal â goresgyn, drwy Fil tai, unrhyw rwystrau deddfwriaethol a allai fodoli o ran ei greu. Ddoe ddiwethaf roeddwn i, ynghyd â nifer fawr o bobl eraill, mewn digwyddiad calonogol a oedd yn edrych ar ffyrdd o ddatblygu tai cydweithredol, ac rwy’n gobeithio y gellir cyflawni hynny mewn rhannau gwledig a dinesig o Gymru. Mae hon yn ffordd ychwanegol bwysig—a phwysleisiaf ei fod yn ychwanegol—i gynyddu cyflenwad tai fforddiadwy, nid i’w rhentu yn yr achos hwn, ond i fod yn berchen arnynt. Rwy’n gobeithio y bydd hynny’n helpu i ddenu ffynonellau cyllid newydd wrth i ni symud ymlaen.

Llyr Huws Gruffydd: Yfory yw’r dyddiad cau deiseb pwysig iawn yn galw ar y Llywodraeth i’w weithredu ar fyrder o ran y cynlluniau datblygu lleol, sy’n gyrru gorddatblygu mewn nifer o gymunedau o Fodelwyddan i Gaerfyrddin heb ddigon o bwyslais ar angen lleol ac ar dai fforddiadwy. A ydych felly yn fodlon i ail-feddwl strategaeth sy’n rhoi cymaint o bwyslais ar godi tai anfforddiadwy, yn enwedig yn absenoldeb polisi cynhwysfawr gan y Llywodraeth i godi tai fforddiadwy?

Llyr Huws Gruffydd: Tomorrow is the closing date for a very important petition calling on the Government to take urgent action in terms of local development plans, which are driving over-development in a number of communities from Bodelwyddan to Carmarthen without sufficient emphasis on local need and affordable housing. Are you therefore willing to rethink a strategy that places so much emphasis on building unaffordable housing, particularly in the absence of a comprehensive Government policy for building affordable homes?

Huw Lewis: I would not accept for a moment that there is no Welsh Government strategy for delivering affordable homes. That strategy is well-established, was pursued by my predecessor, and will be built upon and expanded by this Welsh Government. Local development plans are a matter for the local government body concerned.

Huw Lewis: Ni fyddwn yn derbyn am eiliad nad oes gan Llywodraeth Cymru unrhyw strategaeth i ddarparu tai fforddiadwy. Mae’r strategaeth yn un hirsefydlog, cafodd ei datblygu gan fy rhagflaenydd, ac fe adeiladir arni a’i hehangu gan y Llywodraeth hon. Mae cynlluniau datblygu lleol yn fater i’r corff perthnasol o fewn llywodraeth leol. 

Kirsty Williams: Minister, one aspect of housing in rural areas is that many people downsize into park homes, and, in trying to release equity, some people find themselves at the mercy of unscrupulous practices in that particular housing sector. Could you give the Chamber an update on your plans to bring forward legislation in this area to give better protection to the often elderly people who live in these park homes, so that they have the security that people in other types of housing enjoy?

Kirsty Williams: Weinidog, un agwedd ar y sefyllfa dai mewn ardaloedd gwledig yw bod nifer o bobl yn symud i gartrefi llai o faint mewn parciau, ac, wrth geisio rhyddhau ecwiti, mae rhai pobl yn canfod eu bod ar drugaredd arferion diegwyddor yn y sector penodol hwnnw. A allwch chi roi’r manylion diweddaraf i’r Siambr am eich cynlluniau i gyflwyno deddfwriaeth yn y maes hwn i roi gwell diogelwch i bobl, sef pobl hŷn yn aml, sy’n byw yn y cartrefi hyn, fel bod ganddynt yr un diogelwch â phobl sy’n byw mewn mathau eraill o dai?

Huw Lewis: I pay tribute to Kirsty Williams and her tireless commitment to people who find themselves in difficult circumstances through no fault of their own and happen to be resident in park and mobile homes. I can update the Chamber insofar as the timetable for legislation is becoming a little clearer. I intend to publish before Christmas a position paper for discussion purposes only, for ourselves as Assembly Members, for the wider community in Wales that is concerned about housing issues, and for the general public. I hope that that will signal the start of a national debate leading up to the publication of a housing White Paper in the spring. That will lead to Wales’s first-ever housing Bill sometime in 2013, but, before Christmas, we will have, I hope, through the paper that I have authored, a great deal to get our teeth into in terms of the beginnings of this debate.

Huw Lewis: Rwy’n rhoi teyrnged i Kirsty Williams a’i hymrwymiad diflino i bobl sydd mewn amgylchiadau anodd heb fai arnynt hwy ac sy’n digwydd preswylio mewn cartrefi mewn parciau neu gartrefi symudol. Gallaf roi’r manylion diweddaraf i’r Siambr gan fod yr amserlen ar gyfer deddfwriaeth yn dod ychydig yn fwy clir. Rwy’n bwriadu cyhoeddi papur sefyllfa cyn y Nadolig at ddibenion trafod yn unig, i ni fel Aelodau Cynulliad, i’r gymuned ehangach yng Nghymru sy’n ymwneud â materion tai, ac i’r cyhoedd yn gyffredinol. Rwy’n gobeithio y bydd hynny yn fan cychwyn i ddechrau dadl genedlaethol gan arwain at gyhoeddi Papur Gwyn yn y gwanwyn. Bydd hynny’n arwain at Fil tai cyntaf erioed Cymru rhywbryd yn 2013, ond cyn y Nadolig bydd gennym, rwy’n gobeithio, drwy’r papur a ysgrifennais, lawer o ddeunydd i fynd i’r afael ag ef o ran dechreuadau’r ddadl hon.   

3.30 p.m.

Huw Lewis: I thank the Member for Cardiff Central for that question. Mandatory licensing for houses in multiple occupation of two storeys or more, with five or more occupants, and additional HMO licensing, was introduced in Wales in June 2006. I am currently considering what other measures might be appropriate for further regulation in the private rented sector. This will also form a major part of the debate leading up to the housing Bill.

Huw Lewis: Diolch i’r Aelod dros Ganol Caerdydd am y cwestiwn yna. Cyflwynwyd trwyddedu gorfodol ar gyfer tai amlfeddiannaeth dau lawr neu fwy gyda phump neu fwy o breswylwyr a thrwyddedu tai amlfeddiannaeth ychwanegol yng Nghymru ym mis Mehefin 2006. Yr wyf wrthi’n ystyried pa fesurau eraill a allai fod yn briodol ar gyfer rheoleiddio pellach yn y sector rhentu preifat. Bydd hyn hefyd yn ffurfio rhan bwysig o’r drafodaeth sy’n arwain at y Bil tai.

Jenny Rathbone: As I am sure you are aware, Minister, Cardiff Central attracts a lot private landlords, some of whom are only desiring to make a quick buck out of the students who are often entering into their first contract and little aware of their rights as tenants. A scheme has been introduced in Cathays that regulates accredited landlords, and that seems to be the way forward. I wondered what legislation you might be planning in order to spread that out across the whole of Wales?

Jenny Rathbone: Fel yr wyf yn siŵr eich bod yn ymwybodol, Weinidog, mae Canol Caerdydd yn denu llawer o landlordiaid preifat, a rhai ohonynt ond yn dymuno gwneud arian cyflym allan o’r myfyrwyr sydd yn aml yn llofnodi eu contract cyntaf gydag ychydig o ymwybyddiaeth o’u hawliau fel tenantiaid. Mae cynllun wedi cael ei gyflwyno yn Cathays sy’n rheoleiddio landlordiaid achrededig, ac sy’n ymddangos fel y ffordd ymlaen. Tybed pa ddeddfwriaeth y gallech fod yn cynllunio er mwyn lledaenu hynny ar draws Cymru gyfan?

Huw Lewis: I am aware of the scheme, and local government already has the potential to pursue the subject of landlord accreditation in far-reaching ways at the moment. At present, it is voluntary, and I understand that around 1,300 landlords and letting agents are accredited through the scheme. As part of the deliberations around the contents of the forthcoming housing Bill, we are currently considering additional measures to improve the standards of management and property condition in the private rented sector as a whole, including HMOs. This would involve a more comprehensive approach to the private rented sector in Wales, and that approach would include accreditation and regulation. The housing White Paper, which, as I say, is coming in the spring, will be a chance for a root-and-branch debate, which would include those issues around accreditation, regulation, and support for landlords in the private rented sector.

Huw Lewis: Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r cynllun, a gall lywodraeth leol fynd ar ôl achredu landlordiaid mewn ffyrdd pellgyrhaeddol yn barod. Ar hyn o bryd, mae’n wirfoddol, a deallaf fod tua 1,300 o landlordiaid ac asiantau gosod wedi eu hachredu drwy’r cynllun. Fel rhan o’r trafodaethau am gynnwys y Bil tai sydd i ddod, yr ydym wrthi’n ystyried mesurau ychwanegol i wella safonau rheoli a chyflwr eiddo yn y sector rhentu preifat yn ei gyfanrwydd, gan gynnwys tai amlfeddiannaeth. Byddai hyn yn golygu dull gweithredu mwy cynhwysfawr at y sector rhentu preifat yng Nghymru, ac y byddai’r dull gweithredu hwnnw yn cynnwys achredu a rheoleiddio. Bydd y Papur Gwyn ar dai, sydd, fel y dywedais, yn dod yn y gwanwyn, yn gyfle ar gyfer dadl o’r brig i’r bonyn, a fyddai’n cynnwys y materion hynny ynghylch achredu, rheoleiddio a chymorth i landlordiaid yn y sector rhentu preifat.

Mohammad Asghar: Thank you for your answer to Jenny Rathbone, which I noted very carefully. Student accommodation is very scarce in certain areas in south Wales, especially university student accommodation. Student accommodation is often classed as HMO if the university or college is not managing the property. I have been approached by landlords in my region who are put off operating HMOs due to the cost of licences and other red tape. Meanwhile, there are many empty properties across south-east Wales. I appreciate the need for many of these regulations. I know that many students enjoy living like a family—students from China and India live like a family; if they live individually they have to pay a hell of a lot of rent for the property, but if they live together as a family, they do not pay that individual rent—they pay jointly and the economic burden on the students is reduced. It is also more helpful to foreign students in our part of the world. Will you give any consideration to altering the HMO regulation placed on landlords where certain circumstances dictate, as this could encourage and increase the availability of relevant accommodation and make it more affordable for students from other parts of the world?

Mohammad Asghar: Diolch am eich ateb i Jenny Rathbone, a nodais yn ofalus iawn. Mae llety myfyrwyr yn brin iawn mewn rhai ardaloedd yn ne Cymru, yn enwedig llety ar gyfer myfyrwyr prifysgol. Mae llety myfyrwyr yn aml yn cael ei ddosbarthu fel tai amlfeddiannaeth os nad yw’r brifysgol neu’r coleg yn rheoli’r eiddo. Mae landlordiaid yn fy rhanbarth wedi cysylltu â mi ac mae cost trwyddedau a biwrocratiaeth arall yn eu peri i beidio â gweithredu tai amlfeddiannaeth. Yn y cyfamser, mae llawer o eiddo gwag ar draws y de-ddwyrain. Yr wyf yn gwerthfawrogi’r angen am lawer o’r rheoliadau hyn. Gwn fod llawer o fyfyrwyr yn mwynhau byw fel teulu—mae myfyrwyr o Tsieina ac India yn byw fel teulu; os ydynt yn byw ar eu pennau eu hunain mae’n rhaid iddynt dalu rhent uffernol o uchel am yr eiddo, ond os ydynt yn byw gyda’i gilydd fel teulu, nid ydynt yn talu’r rhent hwnnw yn unigol—maent yn ei dalu ar y cyd a lleihau’r baich economaidd. Mae hefyd yn fwy defnyddiol i fyfyrwyr tramor yn ein rhan ni o’r byd. A wnewch chi roi unrhyw ystyriaeth i newid y rheoliadau tai amlfeddiannaeth a roddir ar landlordiaid lle mae rhai amgylchiadau’n pennu hynny, gan y gallai hyn annog a chynyddu argaeledd llety perthnasol a’i gwneud yn fwy fforddiadwy i fyfyrwyr o rannau eraill o’r byd?

Huw Lewis: Yes, I regularly enter into that debate as part of the wider debate around regulation and support for the private rented sector. We must grow the private rented sector here in Wales, and there will be increasing pressure on it. Issues of quality within the sector need to be addressed, and there are also questions of landlord support. There are regimes that we could envisage, if you like, that not only look towards perhaps wider consideration being given to registration and those issues of quality and safety, with which we would be very much concerned, particularly in terms of student accommodation, but also to landlord support and guidance. Good communication between local authorities, and, in this case, higher education institutions, is the starting point. There is also a role for legislation here.

Huw Lewis: Ydwyf, yr wyf yn trafod hynny yn rheolaidd fel rhan o’r drafodaeth ehangach ynghylch rheoleiddio a chymorth ar gyfer y sector rhentu preifat. Mae’n rhaid i ni dyfu’r sector rhentu preifat yma yng Nghymru, a bydd pwysau cynyddol arno. Mae angen mynd i’r afael â materion o ansawdd o fewn y sector, ac mae cwestiynau o gymorth  i landlordiaid hefyd. Mae cyfundrefnau y gallem eu rhagweld, os mynnwch chi, sydd nid yn unig yn edrych tuag at roi ystyriaeth ehangach efallai i gofrestru a’r materion hynny o ansawdd a diogelwch y byddem yn ymwneud llawer iawn â hwy, yn enwedig o ran llety i fyfyrwyr, ond hefyd cymorth ac arweiniad i landlordiaid. Cyfathrebu da rhwng awdurdodau lleol, ac, yn yr achos hwn, sefydliadau addysg uwch, yw’r man cychwyn. Mae yna hefyd rôl i ddeddfwriaeth yma.

Jocelyn Davies: We now have significant powers, including legislative powers, over the private rented sector, and we know that only the best landlords will join an accreditation scheme. We can be proud in Wales that we have the first national accreditation scheme in the UK. Sometimes, tenants within HMOs are the most vulnerable, and standards can be extremely low. Will you commit to giving protection to those tenants and insist on a minimum standard of accommodation as a right, and accept that these landlords simply will not join an accreditation scheme?

Jocelyn Davies: Mae gennym bellach bwerau sylweddol, gan gynnwys pwerau deddfwriaethol, dros y sector rhentu preifat, a gwyddom mai dim ond y landlordiaid gorau a fydd yn ymuno â chynllun achredu. Gallwn ni yng Nghymru ymfalchïo bod gennym y cynllun achredu cenedlaethol cyntaf yn y DU. Weithiau, tenantiaid o fewn tai amlfeddiannaeth yw’r rhai mwyaf agored i niwed, a gall safonau fod yn hynod o isel. A wnewch chi ymrwymo i roi amddiffyniad i’r tenantiaid hynny a mynnu safon ofynnol o lety fel hawl, a derbyn na fydd y landlordiaid hyn yn ymuno â chynllun achredu?

Huw Lewis: Jocelyn Davies is correct to say that accreditation is voluntary at the moment. I applaud those landlords who have stepped forward. There are many good landlords who are concerned about the image and profile of the private rented sector. We have the opportunity to have a root-and-branch debate. We need not continue with a purely voluntary accreditation system. Compulsory registration is on the table and is an option for discussion. There must be quid pro quo for that, if we go down that line. New systems of support for landlords, in terms of advice and assistance in entering the sector in the first place and so on, would be welcome too. There is a debate to be had between Government, the PRS and other interest groups.

Huw Lewis: Mae Jocelyn Davies yn gywir i ddweud bod achredu yn wirfoddol ar hyn o bryd. Yr wyf yn cymeradwyo’r landlordiaid hynny sydd wedi camu ymlaen. Mae llawer o landlordiaid da sy’n pryderu am ddelwedd a phroffil y sector rhentu preifat. Mae gennym gyfle i gael dadl drwyadl. Nid oes yn rhaid i ni barhau gyda system achredu wirfoddol yn unig. Mae cofrestru gorfodol yn cael ei ystyried ac yn opsiwn i’w drafod. Rhaid bod quid pro quo am hynny, os ydym yn dewis ei wneud. Byddai systemau newydd o gymorth ar gyfer landlordiaid, o ran cyngor a chymorth wrth fynd i mewn i’r sector yn y lle cyntaf ac yn y blaen, yn cael eu croesawu hefyd. Mae angen trafodaeth rhwng y Llywodraeth, y sector a grwpiau diddordeb eraill.

Peter Black: There are two issues in relation to houses in multiple occupation: one is the proper licensing of those properties, making sure that they are managed properly and that they are in a fit state; and the other is the continuing conversion of existing properties into HMOs and the knock-on effect on local communities. When you put together your White Paper on housing, and the subsequent housing Bill, will you talk to the Minister for Environment and Sustainable Development about the additional planning powers you can give to local authorities to protect communities from a disproportionate number of houses in multiple occupation being developed in their areas?

Peter Black: Mae dau fater mewn perthynas â thai amlfeddiannaeth: un yw trwyddedu’r eiddo hwnnw yn briodol, gan wneud yn siŵr ei fod yn cael ei rheoli’n briodol a’i fod mewn cyflwr addas; a’r llall yw trosi parhaus eiddo i fod yn dai amlfeddiannaeth a’r effaith ddilynol ar gymunedau lleol. Pan fyddwch yn llunio eich Papur Gwyn ar dai a’r Bil tai dilynol, a wnewch chi siarad â’r Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd a Datblygu Cynaliadwy am y pwerau cynllunio ychwanegol y gallwch eu rhoi i awdurdodau lleol i ddiogelu cymunedau rhag bod nifer anghymesur o dai amlfeddiannaeth yn cael eu datblygu yn eu hardaloedd?

Huw Lewis: I thank Peter Black for his question. The answer to his question is ‘yes’.

Huw Lewis: Diolch i Peter Black am ei gwestiwn. Yr ateb i’w gwestiwn yw ‘Gwnaf’.

Peter Black: Thank you for that answer, Minister; I am pleased that you are prepared to look at that. Looking at the other side of the equation in terms of the licensing of HMOs, as you know, we already have legislation in place in relation to specific houses in multiple occupation, and in some areas such as Cathays, and Brynmill in Swansea, we have an extension of licensing to other properties that are rented. Will you be looking, as part of the housing Bill, at how that licensing regime can be extended beyond those specific areas to other rented properties?

Peter Black: Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog; Yr wyf yn falch eich bod yn barod i edrych ar hynny. O edrych ar ochr arall y geiniog o ran trwyddedu tai amlfeddiannaeth, fel y gwyddoch, mae gennym eisoes ddeddfwriaeth ar waith mewn perthynas â thai amlfeddiannaeth penodol, ac mewn rhai ardaloedd fel Cathays, a Brynmill yn Abertawe, mae gennym estyniad o drwyddedu i eiddo eraill sy’n cael ei rentu. A fyddwch yn edrych, fel rhan o’r Bil tai, ar y modd y gellir ymestyn y drefn drwyddedu y tu hwnt i’r ardaloedd penodol hynny i eiddo ar rent arall?

Huw Lewis: Yes, absolutely. There is already considerable scope for local authorities to tackle these issues. I fear that there are local authorities that do not have either the will or a grasp of what they could do for the general public good in this regard. However, I am more than willing to look at an extension of the geographical areas in terms of the reach of that kind of licensing, and to look at to constructing a regime from the bottom up that looks at issues both of regulation, including the demands we are putting on the sector in order to reach a minimum standard right across the board, and of what wider society should be doing to support and grow the private rented sector.

Huw Lewis: Byddaf, yn sicr. Mae yna eisoes bosibiliadau sylweddol i awdurdodau lleol fynd i’r afael â’r materion hyn. Ofnaf fod yna  awdurdodau lleol sydd heb un ai’r ewyllys neu amgyffrediad o’r hyn a allent ei wneud er budd y cyhoedd yn gyffredinol yn hyn o beth. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn fwy na pharod i edrych ar estyn yr ardaloedd daearyddol o ran cyrhaeddiad y math hwnnw o drwyddedu, ac edrych ar adeiladu cyfundrefn o’r gwaelod i fyny sy’n edrych ar faterion rheoleiddio, gan gynnwys y gofynion ydym yn eu rhoi ar y sector er mwyn cyrraedd hawl safonol gofynnol cyffredinol, ac ar yr hyn y dylai’r gymdeithas ehangach fod yn ei wneud i gefnogi a thyfu’r sector rhentu preifat. 

Ann Jones: You will know that housing is a top priority for the people in the west end of Rhyl, in my constituency. Last week’s announcement of £10 million for housing regeneration in that area was most welcome, and it signals your Government’s intention to enable good quality housing and a move away from the poor private rented housing that many are in at the moment. Do you agree that that is the way we should be going, and that we need ongoing investment in our areas to ensure that we will see some good sustainable communities develop in the future?

Ann Jones: Byddwch yn gwybod mai tai yw prif flaenoriaeth pobl ym mhen gorllewinol y Rhyl, yn fy etholaeth i. Yr oedd croeso mawr i’r cyhoeddiad yr wythnos ddiwethaf o £10 miliwn ar gyfer adfywio tai yn yr ardal honno ac mae’n arwydd o fwriad eich Llywodraeth i hwyluso tai o ansawdd da a symud i ffwrdd oddi wrth y tai rhent preifat gwael y mae llawer yn byw ynddynt ar hyn o bryd. A ydych yn cytuno mai dyna’r ffordd y dylem fod yn mynd, a bod angen buddsoddiad parhaus yn ein hardaloedd i sicrhau y gwelwn cymunedau cynaliadwy da yn datblygu yn y dyfodol?

Huw Lewis: I thank Ann Jones for her question. I was more than happy to announce £10 million for housing regeneration in the west Rhyl ward this week. I am looking forward to visiting Rhyl again this week to discuss further regeneration plans for that town. Rhyl does exemplify several problems that unsupported and unregulated private rented sector development can inflict upon a community. What must be at the heart of our concerns, in terms of solving these problems, is the development and encouragement of a settled community in decent, affordable, accommodation. That is where we begin and end that debate.

Huw Lewis: Diolch i Ann Jones am ei chwestiwn. Yr oeddwn yn fwy na pharod i gyhoeddi £10 miliwn ar gyfer adfywio tai yn ward gorllewin y Rhyl yr wythnos hon. Yr wyf yn edrych ymlaen at ymweld â’r Rhyl unwaith eto’r wythnos hon i drafod cynlluniau adfywio pellach ar gyfer y dref. Mae’r Rhyl yn enghraifft o nifer o broblemau y gall datblygiad sector rhentu preifat heb gefnogaeth a heb eu rheoleiddio achosi i gymuned. Yr hyn sy’n gorfod bod wrth wraidd ein pryderon, o ran datrys y problemau hyn, yw datblygu ac annog cymuned wedi ei setlo mewn llety safonol a fforddiadwy. Dyna lle’r ydym yn dechrau ac yn gorffen y ddadl honno.

Huw Lewis: I thank the Member for North Wales for that question. I would like to commend the national, regional and local partnership working between public and academic library services across Wales to improve public access to library collections. Co-operation to maintain front-line services is at the heart of the Welsh Government’s ‘Libraries Inspire’ framework that I launched recently at Treorchy library.

Huw Lewis: Diolch i’r Aelod dros Ogledd Cymru am y cwestiwn hwnnw. Hoffwn ganmol y gwaith partneriaeth rhwng gwasanaethau llyfrgelloedd cyhoeddus ac academaidd ledled Cymru yn genedlaethol, rhanbarthol a lleol i wella mynediad y cyhoedd i gasgliadau llyfrgelloedd. Mae cydweithredu i gynnal gwasanaethau rheng flaen wrth wraidd fframwaith ‘Llyfrgelloedd yn Ysbrydoli’ Llywodraeth Cymru a lansiais yn ddiweddar yn llyfrgell Treorci.

Aled Roberts: Minister, you will be aware that, this week, Conwy County Borough Council is discussing reorganisation plans within the library service. Press attention suggests that this comes as a result of criticism regarding its failure to meet library standards. Will you ensure that, in any collaboration projects where there has been good movement towards meeting those standards, there is no dilution of those standards across the regions?

Aled Roberts: Weinidog, byddwch yn ymwybodol bod Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Conwy yn trafod cynlluniau ad-drefnu o fewn y gwasanaeth llyfrgell yr wythnos hon. Mae sylw yn y wasg yn awgrymu bod hyn yn sgil beirniadaeth ynghylch ei fethiant i gwrdd â safonau llyfrgell. A wnewch chi sicrhau, mewn unrhyw brosiectau cydweithio lle bu symudiad da tuag at fodloni’r safonau hynny, nad yw’r safonau hynny yn cael eu glastwreiddio o gwbl ar draws y rhanbarthau?

Huw Lewis: North Wales is taking the lead here, and regional collaboration within library services in Wales is out there in front in the UK as a whole. Library services in Wales are, uniquely across Britain, showing an increase in borrower numbers, and the service is self-evidently getting the thumbs up and a vote of confidence from the Welsh people. However, I am aware of the particular problems being faced by Conwy County Borough Council. I think that they pre-date by some considerable margin any sort of criticism that there might have been of standards. I would not like people to get distracted by what is a difficult decision that the council has to take. I know that CyMAL is working closely with the council and is monitoring the situation. Ultimately, the county borough council is responsible for fulfilling the terms under the Libraries Act 1964.

Huw Lewis: Mae’r gogledd yn cymryd yr awenau yma, ac mae cydweithio rhanbarthol o fewn gwasanaethau llyfrgell yng Nghymru ar flaen y gad yn y DU yn ei chyfanrwydd. Mae gwasanaethau llyfrgell yng Nghymru, yn unigryw ar draws Prydain, yn dangos cynnydd yn nifer y benthycwyr, ac mae’r gwasanaeth yn amlwg yn cael sêl bendith a chefnogaeth y Cymry. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r problemau penodol a wynebir gan Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Conwy. Yr wyf yn meddwl eu bod cryn dipyn yn gynharach nag unrhyw feirniadaeth y gallai fod wedi bod o safonau. Ni fyddwn yn hoffi pe bai penderfyniad anodd sydd yn rhaid i’r cyngor ei gymryd yn tynnu meddyliau pobl. Gwn fod CyMAL yn gweithio’n agos gyda’r cyngor ac yn monitro’r sefyllfa. Yn y pen draw, mae’r cyngor bwrdeistref sirol yn gyfrifol am gyflawni’r telerau o dan Ddeddf Llyfrgelloedd 1964.

Janet Finch-Saunders: Minister, the recent Welsh public standards report by CyMAL was actually quite a damning report that has not done Conwy any favours whatsoever, mainly because it only addresses six of the 14 standards set by that Government-funded public body. However, this is not what the people of Conwy feel. The report recognised that point in saying that the management and staff of the service are to be congratulated on the levels of commendation and support from the public. Yet, the same report sternly concludes that the Welsh Government expects to hear that the libraries modernisation process has been completed by the next annual return in July 2012, and that firm decisions have been made. In Conwy’s modernisation of library services, one of the options is to close seven of our 12 libraries. Minister, this is a top-down approach from this Welsh Labour Government. What are you doing to address the anger felt by many residents in Conwy, and is it not about time that you reviewed the remit of public bodies such as CyMAL and allowed libraries to function in the way that the people of Conwy want?

Janet Finch-Saunders: Weinidog, yr oedd yr adroddiad diweddar am safonau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru gan CyMAL mewn gwirionedd yn adroddiad eithaf damniol sydd heb ffafrio Conwy o gwbl, yn bennaf oherwydd ei fod ddim ond yn mynd i’r afael â chwech o’r 14 o safonau a osodwyd gan y corff cyhoeddus a ariennir gan y Llywodraeth hynny. Fodd bynnag, nid dyna sut y mae pobl Conwy yn teimlo. Cydnabu’r adroddiad y pwynt hwnnw wrth ddweud bod y rheolwyr a staff y gwasanaeth i’w llongyfarch ar y lefelau o ganmoliaeth a chefnogaeth gan y cyhoedd. Eto i gyd, mae’r un adroddiad yn dod i’r casgliad llym bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn disgwyl clywed bod y broses o foderneiddio llyfrgelloedd wedi cael ei gwblhau erbyn y ffurflen flynyddol nesaf ym mis Gorffennaf 2012 a bod penderfyniadau cadarn wedi cael eu gwneud. Ym mhroses moderneiddio gwasanaethau llyfrgell Conwy, un opsiwn yw cau saith o’n 12 llyfrgell. Weinidog, mae hwn yn ymagwedd o’r brig i lawr o’r Llywodraeth Llafur Cymru hon. Beth ydych chi’n ei wneud i fynd i’r afael â dicter llawer o drigolion Conwy, ac onid yw’n bryd i chi adolygu cylch gwaith cyrff cyhoeddus fel CyMAL a chaniatáu llyfrgelloedd i weithredu fel mae pobl Conwy eisiau?

Huw Lewis: CyMAL is universally recognised—although, maybe not by the Member in question—as a supportive and collaborative organisation when it comes to working with library services right across Wales, and it has a fine track record of delivering improved library services, even in difficult circumstances and tough times. To shift the blame for those difficult decisions that are being made in Conwy to the expectations that CyMAL might have in the document that you referred to, could best be described as avoidance of the issue at hand.

Huw Lewis: Cydnabyddir yn gyffredinol— er efallai nid gan yr Aelod o dan sylw—bod CyMAL yn sefydliad cefnogol a chydweithredol pan ddaw i weithio gyda gwasanaethau llyfrgell ar draws Cymru, ac mae ganddo hanes da o gyflenwi gwasanaethau llyfrgell gwell, hyd yn oed mewn amgylchiadau anodd ac amseroedd blin. Y ffordd orau i ddisgrifio symud y bai am y penderfyniadau anodd hynny sy’n cael eu gwneud yng Nghonwy at ddisgwyliadau posibl CyMAL yn y ddogfen y cyfeiriasoch ati, yw fel osgoi’r mater dan sylw.

Lindsay Whittle: Let us have some good news. Minister, I am sure that you will join with me in congratulating Caerphilly County Borough Council on opening three new state-of-the-art libraries, with a fourth planned in the new year. What assistance will the Government be giving to local authorities to help other parts of Wales to learn from the example of Caerphilly council in working together with a number of different organisations, including the Welsh Government, housing associations, the police and other sectors, to spread the cost of keeping libraries open?

Lindsay Whittle: Gadewch i ni gael rhywfaint o newyddion da. Weinidog, yr wyf yn siŵr y byddwch yn ymuno â mi yn llongyfarch Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Caerffili ar agor tair llyfrgell newydd gyda’r datblygiadau diweddaraf, gyda phedwaredd lyfrgell ar y gweill ar gyfer y flwyddyn newydd. Pa gymorth y bydd y Llywodraeth yn ei roi i awdurdodau lleol i helpu rhannau eraill o Gymru i ddysgu oddi wrth enghraifft cyngor Caerffili yn cydweithio â nifer o wahanol sefydliadau, gan gynnwys Llywodraeth Cymru, cymdeithasau tai, yr heddlu a sectorau eraill, i ledaenu’r gost o gadw llyfrgelloedd ar agor? 

3.45 p.m.

Huw Lewis: I thank Lindsay Whittle for the question. I am always ready to congratulate Caerphilly County Borough Council, even though I am paying for most of its successes. [Laughter.] It is very pleasing, and you are right to celebrate the progress that has been made in the county borough. Only last week, I visited the truly remarkable Hanbury Road chapel conversion in Bargoed, which is a traditional Welsh chapel that has been through a stunning, imaginative and very cost-effective conversion into one of the best library spaces that exists, to my mind, anywhere in the UK. Without the joint working between CyMAL and the local authority, it would not have been possible. I must also pay tribute to the Baptist congregation of Hanbury Road, who retain their place of worship in the building, because without their permission none of this would have happened. It is possible, and it could be important for other parts of Wales to look at collaborative examples, such as those that have happened within the boundaries of Caerphilly county borough, for a way forward, even in difficult times.

Huw Lewis: Diolch i Lindsay Whittle am y cwestiwn. Rwyf bob amser yn barod i longyfarch Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Caerffili, er fy mod yn talu am y rhan fwyaf o’i lwyddiannau. [Chwerthin.] Mae’n galonogol iawn, ac yr ydych yn iawn i ddathlu’r cynnydd sydd wedi’i wneud yn y fwrdeistref sirol. Dim ond yr wythnos diwethaf, ymwelais ag addasiad gwirioneddol ryfeddol o gapel Heol Hanbury ym Margod, sydd yn gapel Cymreig traddodiadol a addaswyd mewn ffordd drawiadol, llawn dychymyg a chost-effeithiol i fod yn un o’r gofodau llyfrgell gorau, yn fy marn i, yn y DU. Heb y cydweithio rhwng CyMAL a’r awdurdod lleol, ni fyddai hynny wedi bod yn bosibl. Mae’n rhaid i mi hefyd dalu teyrnged i gynulleidfa Bedyddwyr Heol Hanbury, sy’n cadw eu man addoli yn yr adeilad, oherwydd heb eu caniatâd ni fyddai dim o hyn wedi digwydd. Mae’n bosibl, ac y gallai fod yn bwysig i rannau eraill o Gymru edrych ar enghreifftiau cydweithredol, fel y rhai sydd wedi digwydd o fewn ffiniau bwrdeistref sirol Caerffili, am ffordd ymlaen, hyd yn oed mewn cyfnod anodd.

Huw Lewis: I thank the Member for that. There is no equivocation on my part. There are genuine problems being thrown up by these often sudden and—to many people, particularly those on fixed incomes—shocking service charges. Of course, the pat answer is to say that this is the result of the lease that the leaseholder signed and that this is a private legal relationship between landlord and tenant. All that is true, but responsibility for leasehold is devolved. If leasehold agreements are being used for any sort of nefarious purpose or are causing distress because that is too simplistic a way of putting a legal framework around leasehold, I would be very open to looking at ways in which we can make the process more transparent and fairer, for the landlord and the tenant.

Huw Lewis: Diolch i’r Aelod am hynny. Nid wyf i’n anwadalu. Mae problemau gwirioneddol yn cael eu creu gan y taliadau gwasanaeth hyn, sydd yn aml yn sydyn ac, i lawer o bobl, yn enwedig y rhai ar incwm sefydlog, yn syfrdanol. Wrth gwrs, yr ateb slic yw dweud bod hyn yn ganlyniad i’r les a lofnododd y lesddeiliad a bod hon yn berthynas gyfreithiol breifat rhwng y landlord a’r tenant. Mae hynny yn wir, ond mae’r cyfrifoldeb am lesddaliad wedi’i ddatganoli. Os caiff cytundebau prydlesol eu defnyddio ar gyfer unrhyw fath o ddiben ysgeler neu os ydynt yn achosi gofid am fod hynny’n ffordd rhy syml o roi fframwaith cyfreithiol o gwmpas lesddaliad, byddwn i’n barod iawn i edrych ar sut y gallwn wneud y broses yn fwy tryloyw a theg ar gyfer y landlord a’r tenant.

Eluned Parrott: Minister, I too would like to thank you for your answers to previous questions on the subject. I have been approached by residents of Prospect Place in Grangetown in Cardiff regarding the spiralling cost of their service charges. I understand that residents have had to absorb an increase of 150 per cent in the service charge over the past few years and are alarmed to find that they have no control whatsoever over how the money from those charges is used to maintain the fabric of their homes. What measures can you take, Minister, to protect the rights of these leasehold property owners, specifically to enable them to have a say in the maintenance of their homes?

Eluned Parrott: Weinidog, hoffwn i hefyd ddiolch i chi am eich atebion i gwestiynau blaenorol ar y pwnc. Mae trigolion Prospect Place yn Grangetown yng Nghaerdydd wedi cysylltu â mi ynghylch cost gynyddol eu taliadau gwasanaeth. Deallaf fod y trigolion wedi wynebu cynnydd o 150 y cant yn y tâl gwasanaeth yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf a’u bod yn arswydo o ddarganfod nad oes ganddynt unrhyw reolaeth o gwbl dros sut y mae’r arian o’r taliadau hynny yn cael ei ddefnyddio i gynnal adeiladwaith eu cartrefi. Pa gamau y gallwch chi eu cymryd, Weinidog, i amddiffyn hawliau’r perchnogion eiddo ar brydles hyn, yn benodol er mwyn eu galluogi i gael llais ynghylch gwaith cynnal a chadw ar eu cartrefi?

Huw Lewis: I thank the Member for this point. This is what we are going to explore in the run-up to the White Paper in the spring and the Bill that will follow in 2013. As I say, we are in difficult territory here, because, although responsibility for leasehold is devolved, consumer legislation is not. We also have to consider the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 and the implications for that Act. There are ground rules for service charges within the Act. There are definitions of what is considered to be a service charge, and there are even requirements for reasonableness and prior consultation. However, as I say, we need to do something if this is not adequate. I refer to my earlier answer to Ann Jones about Rhyl: I would hate to see problems such as this leading to the unsettling of communities, whether they are in Cardiff bay, Rhyl or anywhere else.

Huw Lewis: Diolch i’r Aelod am y pwynt hwn. Dyma’r hyn yr ydym yn mynd i edrych arno yn y cyfnod yn arwain at y Papur Gwyn yn y gwanwyn a’r Bil a fydd yn dilyn yn 2013. Fel y dywedais, mae hi’n faes anodd, oherwydd, er bod cyfrifoldeb am lesddaliad wedi’i ddatganoli, nid yw deddfwriaeth defnyddwyr wedi’i ddatganoli. Mae’n rhaid i ni hefyd ystyried Deddf Landlord a Thenant 1985 a’r goblygiadau o ran y Ddeddf honno. Mae rheolau sylfaenol ynghylch taliadau gwasanaeth o fewn y Ddeddf. Ceir diffiniadau o’r hyn a ystyrir i fod yn dâl gwasanaeth, ac mae hyd yn oed ofynion am resymoldeb ac ymgynghori ymlaen llaw. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywedais, mae angen i ni wneud rhywbeth os nad yw hyn yn ddigonol. Cyfeiriaf at fy ateb cynharach i Ann Jones am y Rhyl: byddai’n gas gennyf weld problemau fel hyn yn arwain at gythryblu cymunedau, p’un a ydynt ym mae Caerdydd, y Rhyl neu unrhyw le arall.

Huw Lewis: I thank the Member for Mid and West Wales for that question. The UK Government is consulting on changes to the feed-in tariffs for solar photovoltaic generation, as you are aware. The proposed changes reduce the return on investment for projects markedly, and we are aware that many Welsh social housing projects will not be completed before the proposed changes are due to come in. In my view, this all amounts to a very regrettable act of bad faith on the part of the UK Government.

Huw Lewis: Diolch i’r Aelod dros Ganolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru am y cwestiwn hwnnw. Mae Llywodraeth y DU yn ymgynghori ar newidiadau i’r tariffau cyflenwi trydan am gynhyrchu solar ffotofoltäig, fel y gwyddoch. Mae’r newidiadau arfaethedig yn lleihau’r elw am fuddsoddi mewn prosiectau yn sylweddol, ac yr ydym yn ymwybodol na fydd llawer o brosiectau tai cymdeithasol yng Nghymru yn cael eu cwblhau cyn bod y newidiadau arfaethedig i fod i ddod i rym. Yn fy marn i, mae hwn yn weithred anffodus iawn o ddiffyg didwylledd gan Lywodraeth y DU.

Simon Thomas: I thank the Minister for that reply. I agree with him. With one out of every four households in Wales being fuel poor, it is essential that social housing in particular delivers the best quality home insulation and energy production possibilities for tenants. In particular, in responding to the so-called consultation on this decision, will the Welsh Government take up the suggestion that social enterprises and housing associations in particular should not come under the multi-installation tariff? With the extra costs involved in installing over a wide range of flats and different sorts of buildings, it is essential that housing associations are treated equitably so that they can reinvest for the future, support their tenants and reduce Wales’s carbon footprint.

Simon Thomas: Diolch i’r Gweinidog am yr ateb hwnnw. Yr wyf yn cytuno ag ef. Gydag un o bob pedwar o gartrefi yng Nghymru yn dlawd o ran tanwydd, mae’n hanfodol bod tai cymdeithasol yn arbennig yn sicrhau inswleiddio cartref o’r ansawdd gorau a’r gallu i gynhyrchu ynni i denantiaid. Yn benodol, wrth ymateb i’r ymgynghoriad honedig ar y penderfyniad hwn, a wnaiff Llywodraeth Cymru grybwyll yr awgrym na ddylai mentrau cymdeithasol a chymdeithasau tai yn arbennig ddod o dan y tariff aml-osod? Gyda’r costau ychwanegol sydd ynghlwm wrth osod offer mewn ystod eang o fflatiau a gwahanol fathau o adeiladau, mae’n hanfodol bod cymdeithasau tai yn cael eu trin yn deg fel y gallant ail-fuddsoddi ar gyfer y dyfodol, cefnogi eu tenantiaid a lleihau ôl-troed carbon Cymru.

Huw Lewis: Yes, the Welsh Government will respond to the UK Government’s consultation with something of a heavy heart, when you consider that these decisions have been made before the consultation period is even over. I am aware of the particular problems in relation to social enterprises and registered social landlords, who are ready to commit. These decisions on the part of the UK Government will hit them, Welsh businesses and tenants. In our consultation response, we will ensure that we stand up for those organisations that, in good faith, embarked upon this work and are now seeing everything turned around and the rug being pulled from under their feet.

Huw Lewis: Bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn ymateb i ymgynghoriad Llywodraeth y DU gyda chalon eithaf trwm, o ystyried y gwnaed y penderfyniadau hyn hyd yn oed cyn bod y cyfnod ymgynghori wedi dod i ben. Rwyf yn ymwybodol o’r problemau penodol mewn perthynas â mentrau cymdeithasol a landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig, sy’n barod i ymrwymo. Bydd y penderfyniadau hyn gan Lywodraeth y DU yn eu taro nhw a busnesau a thenantiaid yng Nghymru. Yn ein hymateb i’r ymgynghoriad, byddwn yn sicrhau ein bod yn sefyll i fyny dros y sefydliadau hynny sydd, yn ddidwyll, wedi dechrau ar y gwaith hwn ac yn awr yn gweld popeth yn cael ei droi o gwmpas a’r tir yn cael ei dynnu o dan eu traed.

Nick Ramsay: Minister, do you agree that it is important that we get a sense of perspective on this issue of the feed-in tariff? While I hear the comments that you and Simon Thomas have made, and while I appreciate the concerns around this issue, it is not quite as straightforward as it has seemed. Of course, the feed-in tariff had certain costs in terms of household bills, for instance, and it was never originally envisaged for the scale of some of the schemes to which it has now been applied. That said, will you do what you can to deal with this issue of fuel poverty, which was mentioned at the end of Simon Thomas’s question? I think that I am right in saying that, at the last count, there were people in 61,000 homes classified as suffering from severe fuel poverty. Given the changes to legislation that are happening, will you undertake to do what you can to ensure that those homes in the social housing sector are able to deal with these issues of fuel poverty?

Nick Ramsay: Weinidog, a ydych yn cytuno ei bod yn bwysig ein bod yn cael rhywfaint o bersbectif am y tariff cyflenwi trydan? Er fy mod yn clywed y sylwadau yr ydych chi a Simon Thomas wedi’u gwneud, ac er fy mod yn gwerthfawrogi’r pryderon ynghylch y mater hwn, nid yw mor syml ag y mae wedi ymddangos. Wrth gwrs, yr oedd gan y tariff cyflenwi trydan gostau penodol o ran biliau’r cartref, er enghraifft, ac ni chafodd ei ragweld yn wreiddiol y byddai’n cael ei ddefnyddio ar gyfer cynlluniau o’r graddfa y mae wedi cael ei ddefnyddio ar eu cyfer erbyn hyn. Wedi dweud hynny, a wnewch chi’r hyn y gallwch i ddelio â thlodi tanwydd, a grybwyllwyd ar ddiwedd cwestiwn Simon Thomas? Rwyf yn meddwl fy mod yn iawn i ddweud, ar y cyfrif diwethaf, yr oedd 61,000 o gartrefi yn y dosbarth o bobl sy’n dioddef o dlodi tanwydd difrifol. O ystyried y newidiadau i’r ddeddfwriaeth sy’n digwydd, a ymgymerwch i wneud yr hyn y gallwch i sicrhau bod y cartrefi hynny yn y sector tai cymdeithasol yn gallu delio â’r materion hyn o dlodi tanwydd?

Huw Lewis: Perhaps I can help the Member with a sense of proportion. The average retrofit generation tariff as promised by the UK Government was around 43.3p per kWh. That has dropped to 21p per kWh, which is less than half. We also have the ludicrous cut-off date of 12 December. If you want another lesson in the scale of the problem, let me read to you a list of the bodies that I am aware of that are now in a considerable degree of distress because of the decision of the UK Government. I will not even give you the scale of them; it amounts to thousands of installations and hundreds of pounds per year that would have been saved by people on low or fixed incomes right across the country. The list includes Torfaen County Borough Council, Tai Calon Community Housing, Cartrefi Cymunedol Gwynedd, Newydd Housing Association, Cadwyn Housing Association, Hendre, Newport City Homes, First Choice Housing Association, Coastal Housing Group, Cardiff Council, Merthyr Tydfil Housing Association, Cymdeithas Tai Cantref, Bron Afon Community Housing and Bridgend County Borough Council. Am I being proportionate or not? Members must decide.

Huw Lewis: Efallai y gallaf helpu’r Aelod gyda synnwyr cymesuredd. Roedd y tariff cynhyrchu ôl-ffitio fel yr addawyd gan Lywodraeth y DU tua 43.3c fesul kWh ar gyfartaledd. Mae hynny wedi gostwng i 21c fesul kWh, sy’n llai na hanner. Mae gennym hefyd y dyddiad cau chwerthinllyd o 12 Rhagfyr. Os ydych chi am wers arall ynghylch maint y broblem, gadewch i mi ddarllen rhestr o’r cyrff yr wyf yn ymwybodol ohonynt sydd yn awr mewn cryn dipyn o adfyd oherwydd penderfyniad Llywodraeth y DU. Ni wnaf hyd yn oed roi eu graddfa i chi; mae’n dod i filoedd o osodiadau a channoedd o bunnoedd y flwyddyn a fyddai wedi eu harbed gan bobl ar incwm isel neu sefydlog ar draws y wlad. Mae’r rhestr yn cynnwys Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Torfaen, Cartrefi Cymunedol Tai Calon, Cartrefi Cymunedol Gwynedd, Cymdeithas Tai Newydd, Cymdeithas Tai Cadwyn, Hendre, Cartrefi Dinas Casnewydd, Cymdeithas Tai Dewis Cyntaf, Grŵp Tai Coastal, Cyngor Caerdydd, Cymdeithas Tai Merthyr Tudful, Cymdeithas Tai Cantref, Tai Cymunedol Bron Afon a Chyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr. A wyf i’n bod yn gymesur ai peidio? Rhaid i Aelodau benderfynu.

Keith Davies: Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Yr wyf yn falch bod y rhaglen lywodraethu’n cynnwys nifer o strategaethau i gael mwy o dai fforddiadwy oherwydd, er enghraifft, yn sir Gâr yr wythnos hon, mae bron i 7,500 o bobl ar y gofrestr tai a dim ond 600 o dai sydd wedi’u dyrannu hyd yma eleni. Yr wyf yn sylweddoli bod pwysau ar y cyllid a bod lleihad yn y cyllid cyfalaf o San Steffan. A fyddech yn cytuno mai ffordd Llywodraeth Cymru yw’r ffordd orau o greu tai fforddiadwy yng Nghymru?

Keith Davies: Minister, thank you for that response. I am grateful that the programme for government includes a number of strategies to ensure that we have more affordable housing because, for example, in Carmarthenshire this week, there are almost 7,500 people on the housing register and only 600 homes have been allocated this year. I realise that there are pressures on funding and that there is a reduction in the capital funding from Westminster. Do you agree that the Welsh Government’s approach is the best way of creating affordable housing in Wales?

Huw Lewis: I hope, and I am confident, that we can be leaders across the UK in terms of how we address this enormous challenge. It boils down to two words, very simply: land and capital. It is about innovative ways that we can find to get finance flowing. Capital investment in affordable housing is a major part of this, as is combining that with joint working between the Welsh Government and local government in terms of the release of public land. There are many initiatives under discussion at the moment and announcements will follow over the coming months to address those two issues in ways that have not been pursued by the Welsh Government before. We will face up to the difficulties and the necessities that are facing us in this difficult economic time. 

Huw Lewis: Yr wyf yn gobeithio, ac yr wyf yn hyderu, y gallwn fod yn arweinwyr ar draws y DU o ran sut yr ydym yn mynd i’r afael â’r her enfawr hon. Yn y bôn, dau air sydd yn bwysig: tir a chyfalaf. Mae’n ymwneud â ffyrdd arloesol y gallwn ddod o hyd iddynt er mwyn cael cyllid i lifo. Mae buddsoddiad cyfalaf mewn tai fforddiadwy yn rhan bwysig o hyn, fel y mae cyfuno hynny â gweithio ar y cyd rhwng Llywodraeth Cymru a llywodraeth leol o ran rhyddhau tir cyhoeddus. Mae llawer o fentrau dan drafodaeth ar hyn o bryd, a bydd cyhoeddiadau yn dilyn dros y misoedd nesaf i fynd i’r afael â’r ddau fater mewn ffyrdd nad yw Lywodraeth Cymru wedi eu dilyn o’r blaen. Byddwn yn wynebu’r anawsterau a’r rheidiau sy’n ein hwynebu yn y cyfnod economaidd anodd hwn. 

Mohammad Asghar: Minister, as you will be aware, the 2011 Welsh Conservative manifesto included a commitment to create 10,000 new affordable homes in Wales by 2015.

Mohammad Asghar: Weinidog, fel y gwyddoch, yr oedd maniffesto Ceidwadwyr Cymru 2011 yn cynnwys ymrwymiad i greu 10,000 o gartrefi fforddiadwy newydd  yng Nghymru erbyn 2015.

4.00 p.m.

Prior to the summer recess, you said that you may set an affordable housing target, while earlier this month you said that you would publish targets for co-operative housing and other forms of affordable housing as your agenda unfolds. Given that this administration has been in place for nearly seven months, can you be clearer, Minister, concerning what targets you intend to put in place for affordable housing levels in Wales, and how ambitious you are going to be?

Cyn toriad yr haf, dywedasoch y byddwch, efallai, yn gosod targed tai fforddiadwy, er yn gynharach y mis hwn dywedasoch y byddech yn cyhoeddi targedau ar gyfer tai cydweithredol a mathau eraill o dai fforddiadwy wrth i’ch agenda ddatblygu. O ystyried bod y weinyddiaeth hon wedi bod ar waith ers bron i saith mis, a allwch fod yn gliriach, Weinidog, ynghylch pa dargedau yr ydych yn bwriadu eu rhoi ar waith ar gyfer lefelau tai fforddiadwy yng Nghymru, a pha mor uchelgeisiol yr ydych yn mynd i fod?

Huw Lewis: It really is becoming quite enough to make a cat laugh when you listen to the Conservative Party’s preaching on certain issues. Of all subjects, this week, we hear a question on the supply of social housing. The Welsh Conservatives’ colleagues in the UK Government have this week announced a bargain basement sell-off of precious social housing right across England in order to part-finance the announcement made by the Minister for Housing and Local Government, Grant Shapps, this week. I will announce a social housing target and this target will shame the UK Government in terms of our commitment to the least well off in our society and the per capita equivalent number of units that we will produce, and we will not embark on a further sell-off of precious social housing to rob Peter to pay Paul; that is, helping the slightly less poor by soaking the very poor.

Huw Lewis: Yn wir, mae’n dechrau mynd yn ddigon i wneud i gath chwerthin pan wrandewch ar y Blaid Geidwadol yn pregethu ar rai materion. O’r holl bynciau, yr wythnos hon, clywn gwestiwn ar y cyflenwad o dai cymdeithasol. Mae cyd-Aelodau Ceidwadwyr Cymru yn Llywodraeth y DU yr wythnos hon wedi cyhoeddi gwerthiant tai cymdeithasol gwerthfawr am fargen ar draws Lloegr er mwyn rhan-gyllido’r cyhoeddiad a wnaed gan y Gweinidog Tai a Llywodraeth Leol, Grant Shapps, yr wythnos hon. Fe wnaf gyhoeddi targed tai cymdeithasol a bydd y targed hwn yn codi cywilydd ar Lywodraeth y DU o ran ein hymrwymiad i’r lleiaf cefnog yn ein cymdeithas a’r nifer cyfwerth y pen o unedau y byddwn yn eu cynhyrchu, ac ni fyddwn yn cychwyn ar werthiant pellach o dai cymdeithasol gwerthfawr i ddwyn oddi ar y naill i dalu’r llall; hynny yw, helpu’r rhai sydd ychydig yn llai tlawd drwy drwytho’r tlawd iawn.

Alun Ffred Jones: Yr oeddech yn dweud yn eich ateb cyntaf bod angen atebion hyblyg i’r broblem hon a bod mwy nag un ateb o safbwynt cynyddu nifer y tai fforddiadwy. Yn eich ail ateb, sonioch eich bod yn bwriadu gosod targed. Pryd y byddwch yn gwneud y cyhoeddiad hwnnw? O edrych ar y targed, a ydych chi a’ch swyddogion wedi gwneud asesiad o’r angen am dai fforddiadwy yng Nghymru? Os felly, a ydych yn fodlon rhannu’r ffigurau hynny gyda ni?

Alun Ffred Jones: You said in your initial reply that flexible responses were needed to this problem and that there was more than one solution for increasing the number of affordable homes. In your second reply, you said that you intended to set a target. When will you make that announcement? In looking at the target, have you and your officials assessed the need for affordable homes in Wales? If so, are you willing to share those figures with us?

Huw Lewis: I cannot share those figures with you today, but these targets will be set and they will be ambitious and realistic. I hope that the Member will understand that we have all been thrown into a very different world with regard to the availability of finance, the state of the economy, the attitude of lenders, and the attacks on the standard of living of the least well-off and those people we would seek to protect most during this economic downturn. All of that needs to be absorbed. All of the statistics need to be considered and the numbers need to be crunched. We need to understand, for example, the impact of the universal credit and the impact on different Welsh communities of the UK Government’s changes to housing benefit. This is not something that can be quantified in a few minutes; it takes time and work. However, we will work through those difficulties and will seek to understand them, quantify them and then produce targets against which the Government can be held to account.

Huw Lewis: Ni allaf rannu’r ffigurau hynny â chi heddiw, ond bydd y targedau hyn wedi’u gosod a byddant yn uchelgeisiol ac yn realistig. Gobeithiaf y bydd yr Aelod yn deall ein bod oll wedi cael ein taflu i fyd gwahanol iawn o ran argaeledd cyllid, cyflwr yr economi, agwedd y benthycwyr, ac ymosodiadau ar safon byw’r rhai lleiaf cefnog a’r bobl hynny y byddem yn ceisio eu hamddiffyn fwyaf yn ystod y dirywiad economaidd hwn. Mae angen i hynny i gyd gael ei amsugno. Mae’n rhaid ystyried yr holl ystadegau a gweithio allan y ffigurau. Mae angen inni ddeall, er enghraifft, effaith y credyd cynhwysol a’r effaith ar gymunedau gwahanol Cymru o newidiadau Llywodraeth y DU i’r budd-dal tai. Nid yw hynny’n rhywbeth y gellir ei fesur mewn ychydig funudau; mae’n cymryd amser a gwaith. Fodd bynnag, byddwn yn gweithio drwy’r anawsterau hynny ac yn ceisio eu deall, eu mesur ac yna cynhyrchu targedau y gellid dwyn y Llywodraeth i gyfrif yn eu herbyn.

The Presiding Officer: It is my pleasure to announce the result of the legislative ballot, which I held today. I am pleased to announce that Peter Black may seek the Assembly’s agreement to introduce a Member proposed Bill on park homes and Mohammad Asghar may seek the Assembly’s agreement to introduce a Member proposed Bill on enterprise.

Y Llywydd: Mae’n bleser gennyf gyhoeddi canlyniad y bleidlais ddeddfwriaethol yr wyf wedi ei chynnal heddiw. Yr wyf yn falch o gyhoeddi y gall Peter Black geisio cytundeb y Cynulliad i gyflwyno Bil Aelod ar gartrefi mewn parciau, a gall Mohammad Asghar geisio cytundeb y Cynulliad i gyflwyno Bil Aelod ar fenter.

The Minister for Finance and Leader of the House (Jane Hutt): I have one change to report to this week’s business. Later today, the Minister for Education and Skills will make a statement on higher education. Business for the next three weeks is as set out in the business statement and announcement, which can be found among the agenda papers that are available to Members electronically.

Y Gweinidog Cyllid ac Arweinydd y Tŷ (Jane Hutt): Mae gennyf un newid i’w adrodd i fusnes yr wythnos hon. Yn ddiweddarach heddiw, bydd y Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau yn gwneud datganiad ar addysg uwch. Mae busnes ar gyfer y tair wythnos nesaf fel y’i nodir yn y datganiad a chyhoeddiad busnes, y gellir ei weld ymhlith papurau’r agenda sydd ar gael i Aelodau yn electronig.

William Graham: I thank the Leader of the House for her statement. Would she consider making a statement on the Severn bridge tolls? The Minister will be well aware that they are to increase in January next year to £6 for a car, £12.10 for small goods vehicles and £18.10 for heavy goods vehicles and buses. Clearly, with the suggested enterprise zones in the Bristol area, this in itself will have a detrimental effect on businesses in south-east Wales, coupled with the suggestion from the Chancellor today that, even after the present tolls have ended, it may be possible to use money raised towards the financing of the M4 relief road. Could the Minister indicate what talks she has had with her opposite number at Westminster and whether we are likely to hear of some results?

William Graham: Diolch i Arweinydd y Tŷ am ei datganiad. A wnaiff hi ystyried gwneud datganiad ar dollau Pont Hafren? Bydd y Gweinidog yn ymwybodol iawn y byddant yn cynyddu yn Ionawr y flwyddyn nesaf i £6 ar gyfer car, £12.10 ar gyfer cerbydau nwyddau bach a £18.10 ar gyfer cerbydau nwyddau trwm a bysiau. Wrth gwrs, gyda’r parthau menter awgrymedig yn ardal Bryste, caiff hwn ynddo’i hun effaith andwyol ar fusnesau yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru, ynghyd ag awgrym gan y Canghellor heddiw, hyd yn oed ar ôl i’r tollau presennol ddod i ben, efallai y byddai’n bosibl defnyddio’r arian a godwyd tuag at ariannu ffordd liniaru’r M4. A all y Gweinidog ddweud pa drafodaethau a gafodd gyda’i Gweinidog cyfatebol yn San Steffan ac a ydym yn debygol o glywed rhai canlyniadau?

Jane Hutt: I thank the regional Member for that question. Clearly, you are very disappointed that we are not having our tolls halved, like the Humber bridge tolls. I can confirm that, having looked at the statement and having heard the Chancellor myself, the UK Government is agreeing to engage with the Welsh Government on improvements to the M4 in south-east Wales. Indeed, there are correspondence, meetings and discussions, not only with the First Minister and the Prime Minister, but between my officials and the Minister for transport’s officials on this important project.

Jane Hutt: Diolch i’r Aelod rhanbarthol am y cwestiwn hwnnw. Mae’n amlwg eich bod wedi eich siomi’n fawr nad yw’n tollau’n cael eu haneru, yn yr un modd â thollau ar bont Humber. Gallaf gadarnhau, o edrych ar y datganiad ac ar ôl clywed y Canghellor fy hun, fod Llywodraeth y DU yn cytuno i ymgysylltu â Llywodraeth Cymru ar welliannau i’r M4 yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru. Yn wir, mae yna ohebiaeth, cyfarfodydd a thrafodaethau, nid yn unig gyda Phrif Weinidog Cymru a’r Prif Weinidog, ond rhwng fy swyddogion i a swyddogion y Gweinidog trafnidiaeth ar y prosiect pwysig hwn.

Alun Ffred Jones: It is well known, Minister, that the general policies of the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats at Westminster have proved to be pretty disastrous for the economy and for job prospects. The Chancellor’s statement today showed that the Government in London has at least moved to act on capital projects in a way that Plaid Cymru has been advocating for several months. I think that we need a debate in the Assembly on how this will affect Wales, to hear the Welsh Government’s proposed actions to make the best use of this opportunity.

Alun Ffred Jones: Mae’n hysbys iawn, Weinidog, bod polisïau cyffredinol y Ceidwadwyr a’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn San Steffan wedi bod yn eithaf trychinebus ar gyfer yr economi ac ar gyfer rhagolygon swyddi. Roedd datganiad y Canghellor heddiw yn dangos bod y Llywodraeth yn Llundain wedi symud o leiaf i weithredu ar brosiectau cyfalaf yn y ffordd y mae Plaid Cymru wedi dadlau o’i blaid ers sawl mis. Credaf fod angen inni gael dadl yn y Cynulliad ar sut y bydd hyn yn effeithio ar Gymru, er mwyn clywed am gamau arfaethedig Llywodraeth Cymru i wneud y defnydd gorau o’r cyfle hwn.

Jane Hutt: I agree wholeheartedly with Alun Ffred Jones that the consequential coming to us for capital infrastructure from the UK Government is welcome. We understand that it is £260 million, building on the infrastructure and capital investment announcements that I have made as Minister for Finance over the past two weeks—there was the announcement of a £38.9 million stimulus and the £90 million announced last week. So, we look forward to taking this forward, and that will be a matter, I am sure, for wide discussion and debate.

Jane Hutt: Cytunaf yn llwyr ag Alun Ffred Jones bod y swm canlyniadol sy’n dod inni ar gyfer seilwaith cyfalaf gan Lywodraeth y DU i’w groesawu. Cawn ar ddeall mai £260 miliwn ydyw, gan adeiladu ar y cyhoeddiadau a wneuthum fel y Gweinidog Cyllid cyfalaf dros y bythefnos ddiwethaf am seilwaith a buddsoddi—cafwyd cyhoeddiad o ysgogiad gwerth £38.9 miliwn a’r £90 miliwn a gyhoeddwyd yr wythnos ddiwethaf. Felly, edrychwn ymlaen at fynd â hwn yn ei flaen, a bydd hynny’n fater, mae’n siŵr, ar gyfer trafodaeth a dadl eang.

Mick Antoniw: Minister, the other night, I witnessed the ultimate embarrassment and humiliation of Vince Cable announcing the most draconian set of employment reforms since the second world war. It involved the removal of all employment rights for companies with 10 people, the removal of redundancy rights and the introduction of protective meetings—that is, bullying meetings. This is going to cause damage to the good industrial relations that we have in Wales. Will the Welsh Government be making representations to the UK Government, advising it of the serious consequences of the road that it has gone down?

Mick Antoniw: Weinidog, y noson o’r blaen, gwelais yr embaras llwyr a’r gwarth o Vince Cable yn cyhoeddi’r set llymaf o ddiwygiadau mewn cyflogaeth ers yr ail ryfel byd. Yr oedd yn ymwneud â dileu’r holl hawliau cyflogaeth ar gyfer cwmnïau o 10 o bobl, dileu hawliau diswyddo a chyflwyno cyfarfodydd amddiffynnol—hynny yw, cyfarfodydd bwlio. Mae hyn yn mynd i achosi difrod i’r cysylltiadau diwydiannol da sydd gennym yng Nghymru. A fydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwneud sylwadau i Lywodraeth y DU, yn ei hysbysu o ganlyniadau difrifol y llwybr y mae wedi’i ddilyn?

Jane Hutt: I agree with the Member for Pontypridd that Vince Cable looked extremely uncomfortable, but he is the UK Government Minister who was prepared to make those announcements. Also, in listening to the Chancellor today, I heard him talk about bringing forward simpler, quicker and clearer dismissal powers and processes, possibly unpicking TUPE regulations and a range of other issues, which will threaten employment rights. It is Brendan Barber, the TUC general secretary, that we in the Welsh Government would respect, especially on the point he makes that

Jane Hutt: Cytunaf â’r Aelod dros Bontypridd fod Vince Cable yn edrych yn anghysurus iawn, ond ef yw’r Gweinidog yn Llywodraeth y DU a oedd yn barod i wneud y cyhoeddiadau hynny. Hefyd, wrth wrando ar y Canghellor heddiw, clywais ef yn siarad am gyflwyno pwerau a phrosesau diswyddo symlach, yn gynt ac yn gliriach, o bosibl yn datod rheoliadau TUPE ac amrywiaeth o faterion eraill, a fydd yn bygwth hawliau cyflogaeth. Brendan Barber, ysgrifennydd cyffredinol y TUC, yw’r un y byddai gennym ni yn Llywodraeth Cymru barch tuag ato, yn arbennig ar y pwynt a wna:

‘reducing protection for people at work will not save or create a single job. It’s not employment laws holding firms back, it’s the tough economic climate’.

na fyddai lleihau diogelwch ar gyfer pobl yn y gwaith yn arbed nac yn creu un swydd. Nid deddfau cyflogaeth sy’n dal cwmnïau yn ôl ond yr hinsawdd economaidd anodd.

Research from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development shows that there is no link between regulation and economic output: German employees have much more protection at work and their economy is the strongest in Europe.

Dengys ymchwil gan y Sefydliad ar gyfer Cydweithrediad a Datblygiad Economaidd nad oes unrhyw gyswllt rhwng rheoleiddio ac allbwn economaidd: mae gan weithwyr yr Almaen lawer mwy o ddiogelwch yn y gwaith a’u heconomi nhw yw’r cryfaf yn Ewrop.

William Powell: Minister, last week, we saw Sainsbury’s threatening to launch legal action against the Welsh Government with regard to the exemption from carrier bag charges for its competitor, the online supermarket Ocado. Given that this is a flagship policy for the Welsh Government, and one that we would sincerely like to see implemented effectively, will the Government please find time to update us on the implementation of the carrier bag levy, with particular regard to online supermarkets and food hygiene regulations?

William Powell: Weinidog, yr wythnos diwethaf, gwelsom Sainsbury’s yn bygwth lansio camau cyfreithiol yn erbyn Llywodraeth Cymru o ran eithrio o’r tâl am fagiau siopa ei gystadleuydd, yr archfarchnad ar-lein Ocado. O gofio mai polisi blaenllaw Llywodraeth Cymru yw hwn, ac un y byddem yn wirioneddol hoffi ei weld yn cael ei weithredu’n effeithiol, a wnaiff y Llywodraeth ddod o hyd i amser, os gwelwch yn dda, i roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf inni ar weithredu’r ardoll ar fagiau siopa, gan roi sylw arbennig i archfarchnadoedd ar-lein a rheoliadau hylendid bwyd?

Jane Hutt: I thank William Powell for that important question. Questions to the Minister this afternoon provided an opportunity for an update on the single-use carrier bag charge, which has, of course, been extremely successful; we have been very pleased with how retailers, as well as customers, have responded to it. We expect it to improve further over the coming months, as there have been significant reductions in the number of bags given out. It is important to wait for the first set of figures, which will be available from the retail sector at the end of May next year. I am sure that the Minister will want to update Members, as requested, in particular on issues such as the online supermarket issue.

Jane Hutt: Diolchaf i William Powell am y cwestiwn pwysig hwnnw. Roedd y cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog y prynhawn yma yn gyfle i gael diweddariad ar y tâl am fagiau siopa untro, sydd, wrth gwrs, wedi bod yn llwyddiannus iawn; rydym wedi bod yn falch iawn ar sut y mae manwerthwyr, yn ogystal â chwsmeriaid, wedi ymateb iddo. Rydym yn disgwyl iddo wella ymhellach dros y misoedd nesaf, gan fod gostyngiadau sylweddol wedi bod yn nifer y bagiau a roddir. Mae’n bwysig i aros am y set gyntaf o ffigurau, a fydd ar gael gan y sector manwerthu ar ddiwedd mis Mai y flwyddyn nesaf. Mae’n siŵr gennyf y bydd y Gweinidog am roi diweddariad i’r Aelodau, fel y gofynnwyd, yn arbennig ar faterion megis y mater archfarchnadoedd ar-lein.

Suzy Davies: Minister, I would be grateful if you would ask the Minister for Local Government and Communities to make a statement on community transport. The Community Transport Association has already expressed its concerns that plans are uncertain after 2012, in terms of funding and the scope for users—not just in rural areas but in more urban regions, such as my own. The possible changes to NHS services and where they are located will bring changing demands on where community transport is needed and by whom it will be used. I am sure that a statement by your Government would be welcome.

Suzy Davies: Weinidog, byddwn yn ddiolchgar petaech yn gofyn i’r Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau wneud datganiad ar gludiant cymunedol. Mae’r Gymdeithas Cludiant Cymunedol eisoes wedi mynegi pryderon bod y cynlluniau yn ansicr ar ôl 2012, o ran arian a’r cwmpas ar gyfer defnyddwyr—nid yn unig mewn ardaloedd gwledig ond mewn rhanbarthau trefol mwy, megis fy un i. Bydd y newidiadau posibl i wasanaethau’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol a lle y maent wedi’u lleoli yn dod â gofynion newidiol ar le y mae angen cludiant cymunedol a gan bwy y’i defnyddir. Mae’n siŵr gennyf y byddai croeso i ddatganiad gan eich Llywodraeth.

Jane Hutt: The national transport plan will be able to address the importance of community transport and our pioneering concessionary fares scheme. This is having an impact on easing pressures on those who not only use community transport but also other concessionary bus fare schemes. Those issues will come forth in the national transport plan.

Jane Hutt: Gall y cynllun trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol fynd i’r afael â phwysigrwydd cludiant cymunedol a’n cynllun arloesol ar gyfer tocynnau teithio rhatach. Mae hyn yn cael effaith ar leihau pwysau ar y rhai sydd nid yn unig yn defnyddio cludiant cymunedol, ond hefyd gynlluniau eraill ar gyfer tocynnau bws rhatach. Bydd y materion hynny yn codi yn y cynllun trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol.

Angela Burns: Minister, I would be grateful if you would ask the Minister for Health and Social Services to bring forward a statement on the rules of engagement that she would like to see operated by health boards when they start their public consultation on the new service delivery plans. For example, Hywel Dda Local Health Board is about to go public with its plans in the next two weeks, starting an eight-week consultation period that will be gobbled up substantially by Christmas. It is important that we ask the public for their views on cherished hospitals. I would be grateful if you could make it clear to us what we should be expecting local health boards to do and the timescales to which they should be operating.

Angela Burns: Weinidog, byddwn yn ddiolchgar petaech yn gofyn i’r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol gyflwyno datganiad ar y rheolau ymgysylltu y byddai’n hoffi eu gweld yn cael eu gweithredu gan y byrddau iechyd pan fyddant yn dechrau eu hymgynghoriad cyhoeddus ar y cynlluniau newydd ar gyfer darparu gwasanaeth. Er enghraifft, mae Bwrdd Iechyd Lleol Hywel Dda ar fin mynd yn gyhoeddus â’i gynlluniau yn y pythefnos nesaf, gan ddechrau cyfnod ymgynghori o wyth wythnos a gaiff ei lyncu’n sylweddol gan y Nadolig. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn gofyn i’r cyhoedd am eu barn ar yr ysbytai y maent yn eu coleddu. Byddem yn ddiolchgar pe gallech ei gwneud hi’n glir inni beth y dylem ddisgwyl i fyrddau iechyd lleol ei wneud a’r amserlenni y dylid eu gweithredu.

Jane Hutt: The Minister has made it clear in the Chamber and in committee that she expects a thorough consultation. It is not about rules of engagement; it is about full engagement and ensuring that all stakeholders and partners, including elected representatives, are fully aware of and engaged in that consultation process.

Jane Hutt: Mae’r Gweinidog wedi ei gwneud yn glir yn y Siambr ac yn y pwyllgor ei bod yn disgwyl ymgynghori trwyadl. Nid yw’n ymwneud â rheolau ymgysylltu; mae’n ymwneud ag ymgysylltu’n llawn a sicrhau bod yr holl randdeiliaid a phartneriaid, gan gynnwys cynrychiolwyr etholedig, yn llwyr ymwybodol o’r broses ac yn cymryd rhan yn y broses ymgynghori honno.

Mark Isherwood: I call for a statement on the Welsh Government’s involvement with the UK work programme. We hear much rhetoric in the Chamber, but at the beginning of the month at the Spotlight North Wales 2011 conference, sponsored by the JobFit partnership, one of the agencies delivering the work programme in Wales, we heard that the Welsh Government was fully engaged with this programme. It has a pivotal role in the partnership organisations delivering the UK work programme, described to the conference as one of the biggest welfare to work programmes that the UK has ever seen. This follows news that almost half the youngsters on the UK Government’s workplace programme, which allows unemployed young people to try out work without losing benefits, have found employment. It also follows the confirmation today in the Chancellor’s Autumn Statement that the £1 billion youth contract will fund incentives for companies to take on unemployed young people, and that it will also apply in Wales. Therefore, behind the rhetoric of attacking these issues, we now know that the Welsh Government is engaged. Members and the wider public deserve to know what form that engagement is taking.

Mark Isherwood: Galwaf am ddatganiad ar ymwneud Llywodraeth Cymru â rhaglen waith y Deyrnas Unedig. Rydym yn clywed llawer o rethreg yn y Siambr, ond ar ddechrau’r mis yng nghynhadledd 2011 Sbotolau Gogledd Cymru, a noddir gan y bartneriaeth JobFit, un o’r asiantaethau sy’n gweithredu’r rhaglen waith yng Nghymru, clywsom fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn cymryd rhan lawn yn y rhaglen hon. Mae ganddi rôl ganolog yn y sefydliadau partneriaeth sy’n darparu rhaglen waith y Deyrnas Unedig, a ddisgrifiwyd i’r gynhadledd fel un o’r rhaglenni budd-dal i waith mwyaf y mae’r Deyrnas Unedig wedi’i gweld erioed. Mae hyn yn dilyn newyddion bod bron i hanner y bobl ifanc ar raglen gweithle Llywodraeth y DU, sy’n caniatáu i bobl ifanc ddi-waith gael blas ar waith heb golli budd-daliadau, wedi dod o hyd i gyflogaeth. Y mae hefyd yn dilyn cadarnhad heddiw yn natganiad hydref y Canghellor y bydd y contract ieuenctid £1 biliwn yn ariannu cymhellion ar gyfer cwmnïau i gymryd pobl ifanc ddi-waith, ac y bydd hefyd yn berthnasol yng Nghymru. Felly, y tu ôl i’r rhethreg o ymosod ar y materion hyn, gwyddom yn awr fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn ymgysylltu. Mae Aelodau a’r cyhoedd ehangach yn haeddu gwybod pa ffurf y mae’r ymgysylltu hwnnw’n ei chymryd.

Jane Hutt: I am sure that Mark Isherwood would also want to publicly congratulate the Welsh Government for introducing, through the programme for government and the draft budget, the £75 million investment in our 18 to 24-year-olds in a Jobs Growth Wales scheme, and doing so early after the election, in the budget and in ministerial statements. I am sure that he would also like to congratulate us for the fact that the UK Government has decided to follow our lead on a youth contract, announced last week. Clearly, we are leading the way. We anticipated that we would have to invest, and that is what we did with the £75 million. I am sure that Mark would also welcome the 1,800 more apprentices through the young recruits’ programme that I announced yesterday as part of our economic stimulus package.

Jane Hutt: Mae’n siŵr gennyf y byddai Mark Isherwood hefyd am longyfarch Llywodraeth Cymru am gyflwyno, drwy’r rhaglen lywodraethu a’r gyllideb ddrafft, y £75 miliwn o fuddsoddiad yn ein pobl 18 i 24 oed sydd mewn cynllun Twf Swyddi Cymru, ac am ei wneud mor fuan ar ôl yr etholiad, yn y gyllideb ac mewn datganiadau gweinidogol. Mae’n siŵr gennyf yr hoffai yntau ein llongyfarch am y ffaith bod Llywodraeth y DU wedi penderfynu dilyn ein harweiniad ar gontract ieuenctid, a gyhoeddwyd yr wythnos diwethaf. Mae’n amlwg ein bod yn arwain y ffordd. Rhagwelwyd gennym y byddai’n rhaid inni fuddsoddi, a dyna beth a wnaethom â’r £75 miliwn. Mae’n siŵr gennyf y byddai Mark hefyd yn croesawu’r 1,800 mwy o brentisiaid drwy’r rhaglen recriwtiaid ifanc a gyhoeddais ddoe fel rhan o’n pecyn ysgogi economaidd.

4.15 p.m.

The Minister for Education and Skills (Leighton Andrews): For roughly a decade, reconfiguration of the sector and increased collaboration have been key elements in the strategy of successive Welsh Governments for higher education, from ‘Reaching Higher’ in 2002 to ‘For Our Future’ published in the autumn of 2009 by my predecessor during the One Wales Government.

Y Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau (Leighton Andrews): Am ryw ddegawd, mae ad-drefnu yn y sector a chynyddu cydweithio wedi bod yn elfennau allweddol yn strategaeth Llywodraethau olynol Cymru ar gyfer addysg uwch, o ‘Ymgeisio yn Uwch’ yn 2002 i ‘Er Mwyn Ein Dyfodol’ a gyhoeddwyd yn yr hydref yn 2009 gan fy rhagflaenydd yn ystod Llywodraeth Cymru’n Un.

It is my continuing aim to ensure that we establish a sustainable model for the Welsh higher education sector, one which is better able to deal with, for example, deficiencies in addressing areas of low participation, low skills and low aspiration; the failure to identify part-time and work-based provision as core activities; and the deficit in Wales’s research capacity in comparison to the UK.

Fy nod parhaus yw sicrhau ein bod yn sefydlu model cynaliadwy ar gyfer y sector addysg uwch yng Nghymru, un sy’n gallu ymdrin yn well, er enghraifft, â diffygion wrth fynd i’r afael ag ardaloedd â chyfranogiad isel, sgiliau isel a dyheadau isel; y methiant i nodi darpariaeth ran-amser a darpariaeth sy’n seiliedig ar waith fel gweithgareddau craidd; a’r diffyg mewn capasiti ymchwil Cymru o’i gymharu â’r Deyrnas Unedig.

In June 2010, I made a statement to the third Assembly coinciding with the publication of the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales’s corporate strategy for 2010-11 to 2012-13. I explained that the Cabinet of the One Wales Government had endorsed HEFCW’s plan, in which, by 2013, 75 per cent of HE institutions in Wales will have an annual income above the UK median, and none will be in the lower quartile. I said then that this target does not mean fewer students, but it is likely to mean fewer vice-chancellors.

Ym mis Mehefin 2010, gwneuthum ddatganiad i’r trydydd Cynulliad a oedd yn cyd-daro â chyhoeddi strategaeth gorfforaethol Cyngor Cyllido Addysg Uwch Cymru ar gyfer 2010-11 i 2012-13. Eglurais fod Cabinet Llywodraeth Cymru’n Un wedi cymeradwyo cynllun CCAUC, ac, yn erbyn 2013, byddai 75 y cant o sefydliadau addysg uwch yng Nghymru ag incwm blynyddol sy’n uwch na chanolrif y Deyrnas Unedig, ac ni fyddai unrhyw un ohonynt yn y chwartel isaf. Dywedais bryd hynny nad yw’r targed hwn yn golygu llai o fyfyrwyr, ond mae’n debygol o olygu llai o is-gangellorion.

In December 2010, HEFCW subsequently determined that it believed that a higher education sector of six institutions was a sustainable size for Wales. In March of this year, I asked HEFCW to provide me with advice on the structure of the higher education sector in Wales.

Ym mis Rhagfyr 2010, dyfarnodd CCAUC ei fod yn credu bod sector addysg uwch o chwe sefydliad yn faint cynaliadwy ar gyfer Cymru. Ym mis Mawrth eleni, gofynnais i CCAUC roi cyngor imi ar strwythur y sector addysg uwch yng Nghymru.

The manifesto of the incoming Government in May committed us to a smaller number of stronger universities. In July, I published the advice that I received from HEFCW, set out in its report, ‘The Future Shape of Higher Education in Wales’. All those with an interest in higher education have now had an opportunity to put forward written representations on HEFCW’s advice. I am pleased that we received nearly 400 responses, and I have given careful consideration to the issues that these raised in forming my initial response to HEFCW’s report.

Ymrwymodd maniffesto’r Llywodraeth a oedd yn dyfod i mewn ym mis Mai inni gael nifer llai o brifysgolion cryfach. Ym mis Gorffennaf, cyhoeddais y cyngor a gefais gan CCAUC, a nodwyd yn ei adroddiad, ‘Dyfodol Addysg Uwch yng Nghymru’. Mae’r rheiny sydd â diddordeb mewn addysg uwch bellach i gyd wedi cael cyfle i roi sylwadau ysgrifenedig ar gyngor CCAUC. Yr wyf yn falch y cawsom bron i 400 o ymatebion, ac yr wyf wedi rhoi ystyriaeth ofalus i’r materion a godwyd gan y rhain wrth ffurfio fy ymateb cychwynnol i adroddiad CCAUC.

I have given careful consideration to HEFCW’s advice. I believe that, overall, HEFCW’s report makes a persuasive case for change. I reported my views to Cabinet, which approved my report. The Welsh Government has, therefore, accepted the overall thrust of HEFCW’s advice, with one or two exceptions.

Yr wyf wedi rhoi ystyriaeth ofalus i gyngor CCAUC. Credaf, yn gyffredinol, bod adroddiad CCAUC yn cyflwyno achos cryf ar gyfer newid. Adroddais fy marn i’r Cabinet, a gymeradwyodd fy adroddiad. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru, felly, wedi derbyn byrdwn cyffredinol cyngor CCAUC, gydag un neu ddau o eithriadau.

I have accepted HEFCW’s advice that Cardiff and Swansea universities should remain committed to securing their positions as research-intensive institutions. I expect these two institutions to continue collaborating with each other, particularly in areas where together they would be more effective, and to strengthen key research and teaching partnerships. In addition, I look to Swansea to develop further its collaborative work with its neighbours.

Yr wyf wedi derbyn cyngor CCAUC y dylai prifysgolion Caerdydd ac Abertawe barhau yn ymrwymedig i sicrhau eu sefyllfa fel sefydliadau ymchwil dwys. Disgwyliaf i’r ddau sefydliad hyn barhau i gydweithio â’i gilydd, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd lle y byddent yn fwy effeithiol gyda’i gilydd, ac i gryfhau partneriaethau allweddol ymchwil ac addysgu. Yn ogystal, edrychaf i Abertawe i ddatblygu ymhellach ei gwaith ar y cyd â’u cymdogion.

I have accepted HEFCW’s advice that Aberystwyth and Bangor universities should substantially widen and deepen their existing strategic partnership. However, I do not expect this partnership to progress to a formal merger at this stage.

Yr wyf wedi derbyn cyngor CCAUC y dylai prifysgolion Aberystwyth a Bangor ehangu a dwysáu eu partneriaeth strategol bresennol. Fodd bynnag, nid wyf yn disgwyl i’r bartneriaeth hon symud ymlaen ag uno ffurfiol ar hyn o bryd.

HEFCW advised that Glyndŵr University should develop strong structural relationships with a range of further education colleges within a group structure led by Aberystwyth and Bangor universities. I have not accepted this advice. After considering the representations made, it appears to me that there is a case for considering more closely the existing pattern of HE provision in north-east Wales, and for examining further the options for securing greater regional coherence in the delivery of further and higher education. I shall make a further announcement on this in due course.

Dywedodd CCAUC y dylai Prifysgol Glyndŵr ddatblygu perthynas strwythurol gref gydag amrywiaeth o golegau addysg bellach o fewn strwythur grŵp o dan arweiniad prifysgolion Aberystwyth a Bangor. Nid wyf wedi derbyn y cyngor hwn. Ar ôl ystyried y cynrychiolaethau a wnaed, mae’n ymddangos i mi bod achos i ystyried yn agos batrwm presennol darpariaeth addysg uwch yng ngogledd-ddwyrain Cymru, ac i edrych ymhellach ar yr opsiynau ar gyfer sicrhau mwy o gydlyniaeth ranbarthol wrth ddarparu addysg uwch a phellach. Byddaf yn gwneud cyhoeddiad pellach ar hyn maes o law.

HEFCW advised that the University of Glamorgan, Cardiff Metropolitan University—as UWIC is now known—and the University of Wales, Newport should merge. HEFCW’s report presents a persuasive case for such a merger, which would provide an opportunity for the development of a strong, competitive post-1992 university in south-east Wales, and which would also build on the collaborative work established thus far with the Universities Heads of the Valleys Institute. It would provide an opportunity for these institutions to develop a model of provision across the region to deliver higher education more sustainably and coherently. As I told Cabinet, I am minded to accept this recommendation, subject to detailed consultation with the institutions concerned as to the establishment of a new metropolitan university for Glamorgan and Gwent, with campuses widely distributed, as at present, throughout the Valleys, Cardiff and Newport.

Dywedodd CCAUC y dylai Prifysgol Morgannwg, Prifysgol Fetropolitan Caerdydd—fel y gelwir UWIC yn awr—a Phrifysgol Cymru, Casnewydd uno. Mae adroddiad CCAUC yn cyflwyno achos argyhoeddiadol dros uno o’r fath, a fyddai’n darparu cyfle ar gyfer datblygu prifysgol ôl-1992 gref a chystadleuol yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru, ac y byddai hefyd yn adeiladu ar y gwaith cydweithredol a sefydlwyd hyd yma gyda Phrifysgol Blaenau’r Cymoedd. Byddai’n rhoi cyfle i’r sefydliadau hyn i ddatblygu model o ddarpariaeth ar draws y rhanbarth i ddarparu addysg uwch yn fwy cynaliadwy a chydlynol. Fel y dywedais wrth y Cabinet, yr wyf yn bwriadu derbyn yr argymhelliad hwn, yn amodol ar ymgynghoriad manwl gyda’r sefydliadau dan sylw ynghylch sefydlu prifysgol fetropolitan newydd ar gyfer Morgannwg a Gwent, gyda champysau wedi’u gwasgaru, fel ar hyn o bryd, ledled y Cymoedd, Caerdydd a Chasnewydd.

HEFCW advised that the University of Wales Trinity Saint David and Swansea Metropolitan University should merge as already planned, potentially, but not necessarily, also with the University of Wales. I accept this advice and welcome the moves already made by those institutions.

Dywedodd CCAUC y dylai Prifysgol Cymru y Drindod Dewi Sant a Phrifysgol Fetropolitan Abertawe uno fel y cynlluniwyd eisoes, o bosibl, ond nid o reidrwydd, hefyd gyda Phrifysgol Cymru. Derbyniaf y cyngor hwn a chroesawaf y camau a gymerwyd eisoes gan y sefydliadau hynny.

Finally, HEFCW advised that medicine should be considered as a ‘special case’ subject and suggested that it might be appropriate to review the structure of medical education. I have considered this advice and accepted it, while noting the overall direction of travel, which is about strengthening partnerships and collaboration in developing an integrated all-Wales approach to medical education.

Yn olaf, dywedodd CCAUC y dylid ystyried meddygaeth fel pwnc ‘achos arbennig’, ac awgrymodd y gallai fod yn briodol i adolygu strwythur addysg feddygol. Yr wyf wedi ystyried y cyngor hwn ac yn derbyn hynny, tra’n nodi’r cyfeiriad cyffredinol, sy’n ymwneud â chryfhau partneriaethau a chydweithio i ddatblygu ymagwedd integredig Cymru-gyfan tuag at addysg feddygol.

The initial period of public engagement on HEFCW’s report has now concluded. Before any final decision and dissolution order is made in relation to an individual higher education corporation, I will consult the institutions affected. That will provide an opportunity for those institutions to put forward evidence and raise any issues or concerns that they may wish to discuss. I anticipate that this period of consultation will begin early in the new year.

Mae’r cyfnod cychwynnol o ymgysylltiad cyhoeddus ar adroddiad CCAUC bellach wedi dod i ben. Cyn y gwneir unrhyw benderfyniad terfynol neu orchymyn diddymu mewn perthynas â chorfforaeth addysg uwch unigol, byddwn yn ymgynghori â’r sefydliadau yr effeithir arnynt. Bydd hynny’n darparu cyfle ar gyfer y sefydliadau hynny i gyflwyno tystiolaeth a chodi unrhyw faterion neu bryderon y byddent am eu trafod. Rhagwelaf y bydd y cyfnod ymgynghori’n dechrau yn gynnar yn y flwyddyn newydd.

Wales needs universities with the capacity and critical mass to operate dynamically, effectively and efficiently, particularly in an era when the HE sector in other parts of the UK is undergoing radical change. I believe that, in responding to HEFCW’s advice as I have indicated, we will be moving much closer to this goal.

Mae ar Gymru angen prifysgolion â’r capasiti a’r màs critigol i weithredu’n ddeinamig, yn effeithiol ac yn effeithlon, yn enwedig mewn cyfnod pan fydd y sector addysg uwch mewn rhannau eraill y Deyrnas Unedig yn ymgymryd â newid radical. Credaf, wrth ymateb i gyngor CCAUC fel yr awgrymais, y byddwn yn symud yn llawer agosach at y nod hwn.

Angela Burns: The Welsh Conservatives recognise that higher education is changing and that we have to focus on outcomes. We need to concentrate not just on the undergraduate offering, but on the postgraduate offering and on research excellence. To that end, I understand why you have sought to analyse the higher education sector, Minister, in order to determine how our higher education institutions should deliver on providing robust outcomes and value for the Welsh pound. However, I am surprised that the resulting future structure of higher education in Wales seems to be more about numbers and targeting specific institutions than about outcomes for learners and skills for the country.

Angela Burns: Mae Ceidwadwyr Cymru yn cydnabod bod addysg uwch yn newid a bod yn rhaid inni ganolbwyntio ar ganlyniadau. Mae angen inni ganolbwyntio nid yn unig ar y cynnig israddedig, ond ar y cynnig ôl-raddedig ac ar ragoriaeth ymchwil. I’r perwyl hwnnw, deallaf pam yr ydych wedi ceisio dadansoddi’r sector addysg uwch, Weinidog, er mwyn penderfynu sut y dylai ein sefydliadau addysg uwch gyflawni ar ddarparu canlyniadau cadarn a gwerth am y bunt Gymreig. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn synnu bod y strwythur sy’n deillio o addysg uwch yng Nghymru yn y dyfodol yn ymddangos i ymwneud mwy â niferoedd a thargedu sefydliadau penodol nag â chanlyniadau dysgwyr a sgiliau ar gyfer y wlad.

I would like to run through your statement bit by bit, if I may. Minister, I am curious to know why you have rejected some of the advice, which, incidentally, is advice that I support, such as not merging the three universities in the north-east and north-west, when, in fact, it was your department that urged HEFCW to build on the document that it had prepared initially and asked it to play up the positive advantages of restructuring. However, you have turned around and said ‘no’ on a couple of key points.

Hoffwn redeg drwy eich datganiad bob yn dipyn, os caf. Weinidog, yr wyf yn chwilfrydig i wybod pam yr ydych wedi gwrthod rhywfaint o’r cyngor, sydd, gyda llaw, yn gyngor yr wyf yn ei gefnogi, megis peidio ag uno’r tair prifysgol yn y gogledd-ddwyrain a’r gogledd-orllewin, pan, mewn gwirionedd, eich adran chi a anogodd CCAUC i adeiladu ar y ddogfen y paratôdd ar y dechrau ac y gofynnodd iddo chwarae i’r manteision cadarnhaol o ailstrwythuro. Fodd bynnag, yr ydych wedi troi o amgylch a dweud ‘na’ ar un neu ddau o bwyntiau allweddol.

I agree with your views on both Cardiff and Swansea universities. It is imperative for Wales that we develop research excellence, and those two universities are best positioned to drive that forward. I would like to understand better, however, why you have rejected HEFCW’s advice on Aberystwyth and Bangor, and, of course, on Glyndŵr. I would like to pay tribute to Ken Skates, Sandy Mewies, Ann Jones and the Labour MPs who ran an excellent campaign to keep that university as it is. However, as you said in your statement that you will keep it at present and will make a further announcement in due course, what will influence you and why did you decide not to follow through that advice from HEFCW?

Cytunaf â’ch barn ar brifysgolion Caerdydd ac Abertawe. Mae’n hanfodol i Gymru ein bod yn datblygu rhagoriaeth ymchwil, ac mae’r ddwy brifysgol hynny yn y sefyllfa orau i fwrw ymlaen â hynny. Hoffwn ddeall yn well, fodd bynnag, pam yr ydych wedi gwrthod cyngor CCAUC ar Aberystwyth a Bangor, ac, wrth gwrs, ar Glyndŵr. Hoffwn dalu teyrnged i Ken Skates, Sandy Mewies, Ann Jones a’r Aelodau Seneddol Llafur a redodd ymgyrch ardderchog i gadw’r brifysgol honno fel ag y mae. Fodd bynnag, gan y dywedasoch yn eich datganiad y byddwch yn ei gadw ar hyn o bryd ac yn gwneud cyhoeddiad pellach maes o law, beth fydd yn dylanwadu arnoch a pham y gwnaethoch chi benderfynu peidio â dilyn y cyngor hwnnw gan CCAUC?

I noted that you have accepted the advice on University of Wales Trinity Saint David and Swansea Metropolitan University. Can you give us a brief indication as to whether or not you intend to keep the University of Wales name for that brand or whether you will encourage those institutions to go elsewhere, Minister?

Sylwais eich bod wedi derbyn y cyngor ar Brifysgol Cymru Y Drindod Dewi Sant a Phrifysgol Fetropolitan Abertawe. A allwch roi syniad byr inni a fwriedwch ai peidio gadw enw Prifysgol Cymru ar gyfer y brand hwnnw neu a wnewch annog y sefydliadau hynny i fynd i rywle arall, Weinidog?

I have left until last the difficult one, which is the proposed merger between the University of Glamorgan, the University of Wales, Newport and what is now Cardiff Metropolitan University. Minister, you talk of mergers, but I wonder whether a merger, for example, will enable the open and transparent recruitment of staff and governors. I am concerned by the words that you have used—you used the word ‘dissolution’, which is a very strong word. I understand that only one higher education institution has been dissolved before. That is a very strong stance to take on both Newport university and Cardiff Metropolitan University, both of which have made it crystal clear that they do not want an enforced merger. For my part, Minister, I have to say that the Welsh Conservatives support collaboration and mergers to make the best use of resources and to ensure high-quality education. However, we do not believe that mergers should be compelled. Surely, if the educational provision is of paramount importance, education should not be jeopardised by a forced merger. We are concerned that forced mergers would have a negative impact on the relationships between institutions and between the higher education sector and the Minister for education and his department. We believe that, for the future of higher education, it is imperative that there are good working relationships between all elements. We are concerned that the uncertainty that you announce by talking of merger and dissolution—which implies a formal forcing of a merger—will have a negative impact on applications to those universities. We are also concerned about the cost and upheaval at this financially-constrained time that forced mergers will mean. I am sure that these institutions will go for legal advice and will want to talk it through with you. Minister, what assumptions have you made with regard to the possible costs of an enforced merger?

Rwyf wedi gadael tan y diwethaf yr un anoddaf, sef yr uno arfaethedig rhwng Prifysgol Morgannwg, Prifysgol Cymru, Casnewydd a’r hyn a elwir yn awr yn Brifysgol Fetropolitan Caerdydd. Weinidog, rydych yn sôn am uno, ond tybed a fydd uno, er enghraifft, yn galluogi recriwtio agored a thryloyw o staff a llywodraethwyr. Yr wyf yn bryderus ynghylch y geiriau yr ydych wedi eu defnyddio—defnyddiasoch y gair ‘diddymu’, sydd yn air cryf iawn. Deallaf mai dim ond un sefydliad addysg uwch sydd wedi’i ddiddymu o’r blaen. Mae hynny’n safbwynt cryf iawn i’w gymryd ar Brifysgol Casnewydd a Phrifysgol Fetropolitan Caerdydd, sydd wedi dweud yn gwbl glir nad ydynt am uniad gorfodol. O’m rhan i, Weinidog, rhaid imi ddweud bod Ceidwadwyr Cymru yn cefnogi’r cydweithio ac uno i wneud y defnydd gorau o adnoddau a sicrhau addysg o ansawdd uchel. Fodd bynnag, ni chredwn y dylid gorfodi uno. Yn sicr, os yw darpariaeth addysgol yn hollbwysig, ni ddylai addysg gael ei pheryglu gan uniad gorfodol. Rydym yn pryderu y byddai gorfodi uno’n cael effaith negyddol ar y berthynas rhwng sefydliadau a rhwng y sector addysg uwch a’r Gweinidog Addysg a’i adran. Credwn, ar gyfer dyfodol addysg uwch, ei bod yn hanfodol bod perthynas waith dda rhwng yr holl elfennau hynny. Rydym yn pryderu y byddai’r ansicrwydd yr ydych yn ei gyhoeddi drwy sôn am uno a diddymu—sy’n awgrymu gorfodi uno ffurfiol—yn cael effaith negyddol ar geisiadau i’r prifysgolion hynny. Yr ydym hefyd yn pryderu am y gost a’r cynnwrf ar y cyfnod hwn o gyfyngu ariannol y bydd gorfodi uno yn ei olygu. Mae’n siŵr gennyf y bydd y sefydliadau hyn yn mynd am gyngor cyfreithiol ac yn dymuno ei drafod gyda chi. Weinidog, pa ragdybiaethau ydych chi wedi eu gwneud o ran costau posibl uniad gorfodol?

I do not agree with HEFCW that we should not be concerned with short-term considerations about financial stability. I appreciate that our strategic vision is very important, but we must ensure that, in the drive to reform the higher education sector in Wales, we do not drive any of the universities into financially difficult waters. There is an awful lot more to say on this and I am conscious that I cannot ask about it all because this is just a statement, but I would be most grateful if you could answer some of those questions and I would like to have the opportunity to return to this subject again, because it is of such importance to Wales.

Nid wyf yn cytuno gyda CCAUC na ddylem ymwneud ag ystyriaethau tymor byr am sefydlogrwydd ariannol. Yr wyf yn sylweddoli bod ein gweledigaeth strategol yn bwysig iawn, ond rhaid inni sicrhau, yn yr ymgyrch i ddiwygio’r sector addysg uwch yng Nghymru, nad ydym yn cyfeirio unrhyw un o’r prifysgolion i ddyfroedd ariannol anodd. Mae llawer mwy i’w ddweud ar hyn ac yr wyf yn ymwybodol na fedraf ofyn am hyn i gyd oherwydd dim ond datganiad yw hwn, ond byddaf yn dra diolchgar pe gallech ateb rhai o’r cwestiynau hynny a hoffwn gael y cyfle i ddychwelyd at y pwnc hwn eto, oherwydd ei bod mor bwysig i Gymru.

Leighton Andrews: It has been the objective of successive Welsh Governments, as I said in my statement, to seek greater collaboration in the higher education sector and reconfiguration of the sector. That policy of seeking reconfiguration has enjoyed all-party support in the Assembly over the last decade. I remind the spokesperson for the opposition of the various reports by a number of committees in the Assembly, including, not least, the former Audit Committee, now the Public Accounts Committee, which looked at the whole policy of reconfiguration and concluded that further steps needed to be taken to ensure that we developed a genuinely Welsh higher-education sector in Wales. Work has been done by the former Audit Committee and the Wales Audit Office on the cost of abortive mergers and some of the less successful attempts at reconfiguration in the past. This is not a new policy, but it is a determined policy, and it comes with the backing of a manifesto commitment of the incoming Government, which was endorsed in the May election. It is a policy that has been shared widely across the Assembly over the last decade, and I outlined in my statement a series of steps, during my time as Minister for education, that have been taken with the support of other parties to take this agenda forward. We know that Wales does not perform as it should in terms of its achievements in respect of funding from Research Councils UK, for example. I met Research Councils UK recently and it confirmed its support for our agenda of increasing collaboration across HE institutions to win greater research funding. With regard to the advice from HEFCW, I published that advice and a consultation exercise took place. There were significant opportunities for people in the sector and throughout Wales to comment on the stakeholder engagement exercise. I came to the view that it was essential, for example, to see greater collaboration between Aberystwyth and Bangor, but some of the geographical issues affecting Aberystwyth University, Bangor University and Glyndŵr University in north-east Wales raised significant problems.

Leighton Andrews: Bu’n amcan gan Lywodraethau olynol yng Nghymru, fel y dywedais yn fy natganiad, i geisio mwy o gydweithredu yn y sector addysg uwch ac ad-drefnu’r sector. Mae’r polisi hwnnw o geisio ad-drefnu wedi mwynhau cefnogaeth pob plaid yn y Cynulliad dros y ddegawd ddiwethaf. Atgoffaf y llefarydd ar ran yr wrthblaid am y gwahanol adroddiadau gan nifer o bwyllgorau yn y Cynulliad, gan gynnwys, nid yn lleiaf, yr hen Bwyllgor Archwilio, y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus bellach, a fu’n edrych ar yr holl bolisi ad-drefnu ac a ddaeth i’r casgliad bod angen cymryd camau pellach i sicrhau ein bod yn datblygu sector addysg uwch wirioneddol Gymreig yng Nghymru. Mae gwaith wedi’i wneud gan y cyn-Bwyllgor Archwilio a Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru ar y gost o uno ofer a rhai o’r ymdrechion llai llwyddiannus ar ad-drefnu yn y gorffennol. Nid polisi newydd mo hwn, ond mae’n bolisi penderfynol, a daw gyda chefnogaeth ymrwymiad maniffesto Llywodraeth newydd, a gymeradwywyd yn etholiad mis Mai. Mae’n bolisi sydd wedi ei rannu’n eang ar draws y Cynulliad dros y ddegawd ddiwethaf, ac amlinellais yn fy natganiad gyfres o gamau, yn ystod fy amser fel y Gweinidog dros addysg, a gymerwyd gyda chefnogaeth pleidiau eraill i symud yr agenda hwn ymlaen. Rydym yn gwybod nad yw Cymru’n perfformio fel y dylai o ran ei chyflawniadau mewn perthynas ag arian gan Gynghorau Ymchwil y Deyrnas Unedig, er enghraifft. Cyfarfûm â Chynghorau Ymchwil y Deyrnas Unedig yn ddiweddar a chadarnhaodd ei gefnogaeth ar gyfer ein hagenda o gydweithredu cynyddol ar draws sefydliadau addysg uwch i ennill mwy o arian ymchwil. O ran y cyngor gan CCAUC, cyhoeddais y cyngor, a chynhaliwyd ymarfer ymgynghori. Roedd cyfleoedd sylweddol i bobl yn y sector a ledled Cymru i roi sylwadau ar yr ymarfer ymgysylltu â rhanddeiliaid. Deuthum i’r casgliad ei bod yn hanfodol, er enghraifft, i weld mwy o gydweithredu rhwng Aberystwyth a Bangor, ond cododd rhai o’r materion daearyddol sy’n effeithio ar Brifysgol Aberystwyth, Prifysgol Bangor a Phrifysgol Glyndŵr yng ngogledd-ddwyrain Cymru broblemau sylweddol.

4.30 p.m.

However, I do have issues about the way in which higher education serves north-east Wales, and that is why I intend to undertake a further review of the provision there. I also have views about the provision of post-1992 institutional support in north-west Wales, which is something I suspect we will return to. In respect of the institutions in south-west Wales, the developments there are progressive, including developments with the University of Wales. What happens ultimately to the title of the University of Wales is a matter for those institutions. In respect of south-east Wales, we have seen attempts in the past to achieve a stronger metropolitan university there. There have been a number of ways in which different institutions have sought to engage with that agenda, but we as a Government are clear in our targets and objectives, and we were clear in our manifesto when we went to the electorate in May of this year.

Fodd bynnag, yr wyf mewn anhawster ynghylch y ffordd y mae addysg uwch yn gwasanaethu gogledd-ddwyrain Cymru, a dyna pam yr wyf yn bwriadu cynnal adolygiad pellach o’r ddarpariaeth yno. Mae gennyf hefyd sylwadau am ddarpariaeth cefnogaeth sefydliadol ôl-1992 yng ngogledd-orllewin Cymru, sy’n rhywbeth yr wyf yn amau ​​y byddwn yn dychwelyd ato. O ran y sefydliadau yn ne-orllewin Cymru, mae’r datblygiadau yno yn flaengar, gan gynnwys datblygiadau gyda Phrifysgol Cymru. Mae’r hyn a fydd yn digwydd yn y pen draw i deitl Prifysgol Cymru yn fater i’r sefydliadau hynny. O ran de-ddwyrain Cymru, yr ydym wedi gweld ymdrechion yn y gorffennol i sicrhau prifysgol fetropolitan gryfach yno. Y mae gwahanol sefydliadau wedi ceisio ymgysylltu â’r agenda honno mewn nifer o ffyrdd, ond yr ydym ni fel Llywodraeth yn glir yn ein targedau ac amcanion, ac roeddem yn glir yn ein maniffesto pan aethom i’r etholwyr ym mis Mai eleni.

I would remind the opposition spokesperson that, when I made my statement in this Chamber in June of last year, it was broadly welcomed by all parties. That statement outlined the then One Wales Government’s support for the corporate strategy of HEFCW, which related to the objective of 75 per cent of higher education institutions being at or above the median UK size by 2013. That remains our policy, and we remain committed to implementing it. We have the powers under the 1988 Act to dissolve higher education corporations in certain circumstances. I have outlined in the statement how we intend to progress with those discussions in south-east Wales, and I do not intend to add further to that today.

Hoffwn atgoffa llefarydd yr wrthblaid, pan wneuthum fy natganiad yn y Siambr hon ym mis Mehefin y llynedd, yr oedd croeso cyffredinol gan bob plaid. Amlinellodd y datganiad hwnnw gefnogaeth Llywodraeth Cymru’n Un ar y pryd ar gyfer strategaeth gorfforaethol CCAUC, a oedd yn ymwneud â’r amcan o 75 y cant o sefydliadau addysg uwch yn cyrraedd y maint canolrif neu dros y maint canolrif ar gyfer y DU erbyn 2013. Dyna yw ein polisi, ac rydym yn parhau i ymrwymo i’w weithredu. Mae gennym y pwerau o dan Ddeddf 1988 i ddiddymu corfforaethau addysg uwch mewn rhai amgylchiadau. Yr wyf wedi amlinellu yn y datganiad sut rydym yn bwriadu symud ymlaen gyda’r trafodaethau hynny yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru, ac nid wyf yn bwriadu ychwanegu ymhellach at hynny heddiw.

David Rees: Minister, before I start, I must put on record the fact that my former employer is Swansea Metropolitan University, and I have many friends and former colleagues there. I welcome your statement, particularly the point about the importance of research at Swansea University, which I hope will encourage the development of a second campus in my constituency. I have some questions that I wish to ask you, and I will begin with one that I have mentioned before. The mission statement of any individual institution should be included in that of any merged institution, so that the students who are provided for will continue to be provided for, and the courses that are offered will continue to be offered. I am concerned that this might be seen as an opportunity to cut courses for non-educational reasons, which is important. Staffing levels must also be maintained, and the governance situation of individual institutions should also be reflected in any merger. Clearly, it is important that we have representatives of both staff and students from existing institutions in any governing body of a merged institution.

David Rees: Weinidog, cyn i mi ddechrau, rhaid i mi ddweud ar goedd mai fy nghyn-gyflogwr yw Prifysgol Fetropolitan Abertawe, ac mae gen i lawer o ffrindiau a chyn-gydweithwyr yno. Yr wyf yn croesawu eich datganiad, yn enwedig y pwynt am bwysigrwydd ymchwil ym Mhrifysgol Abertawe, a gobeithiaf y bydd yn annog y gwaith o ddatblygu ail gampws yn fy etholaeth. Mae gennyf rai cwestiynau yr hoffwn eu gofyn i chi, a dechreuaf ag un yr wyf eisoes wedi’i grybwyll. Dylid cynnwys datganiad cenhadaeth unrhyw sefydliad unigol yn un unrhyw sefydliad cyfun, fel y bydd y myfyrwyr y darperir ar eu cyfer yn parhau i dderbyn y ddarpariaeth honno a bydd y cyrsiau sy’n cael eu cynnig yn parhau i gael eu cynnig. Yr wyf yn pryderu y gallai hyn gael ei weld fel cyfle i dorri cyrsiau am resymau nad ydynt yn addysgol, sy’n bwysig. Rhaid cynnal lefelau staffio hefyd a dylid hefyd adlewyrchu sefyllfa lywodraethu sefydliadau unigol mewn unrhyw gyfuniad. Yn amlwg, mae’n bwysig bod gennym gynrychiolwyr staff a myfyrwyr o sefydliadau presennol mewn unrhyw gorff llywodraethu sefydliad cyfun.

I will add one other point. You said in your statement that there has been a reduction of vice-chancellors, but we are seeing the creation of rectors, provosts or even presidents. I hope that you will ensure that these are short-term posts, because they take away resources from the students.

Ychwanegaf un pwynt arall. Dywedasoch yn eich datganiad bod llai o is-gangellorion, ond yr ydym yn gweld swyddi rheithoriaid, profostiaid neu hyd yn oed lywyddion yn cael eu creu. Gobeithiaf y byddwch yn sicrhau bod y rhain yn swyddi tymor byr, gan eu bod yn cymryd adnoddau oddi wrth fyfyrwyr.

Part-time provision is clearly part of your concept. On that, it is important that these institutions continue to provide work-related and part-time provision under any merger.

Mae darpariaeth ran-amser yn amlwg yn rhan o’ch cysyniad. Ar hynny, mae’n bwysig bod y sefydliadau hyn yn parhau i gynnig darpariaeth sy’n gysylltiedig â gwaith a darpariaeth ran-amser o dan unrhyw uno.

Leighton Andrews: Yes, and it is worth saying at this point that we are well aware that, over the next few years, the financial situation facing higher education institutions in Wales, England, Scotland and Northern Ireland will be uncertain. The nature of the marketisation introduced by the UK Government into the higher education sector over recent years means that, even now, there are factors that we will not understand until the new fee regime has come into place. Therefore it is essential that we have financially robust institutions, which is another reason underpinning our approach to reconfiguration. My colleague the Member for Aberavon rightly raised the issue of the mission of individual institutions, and we would want to ensure that, in any merger situation, the respective missions of particular institutions are supported and consolidated. We would also recognise the achievements that have been made by many institutions in Wales in encouraging learners from non-traditional backgrounds and, indeed, as he rightly said, in the development of part-time education. One thing that we witnessed in Wales, as well as across the UK as a whole, is the extraordinary expansion of the Open University as a partner in the provision of higher education.

Leighton Andrews: Ydy, ac mae’n werth dweud yn y fan hon ein bod yn ymwybodol iawn y bydd y sefyllfa ariannol sy’n wynebu sefydliadau addysg uwch yng Nghymru, Lloegr, yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon dros yr ychydig flynyddoedd nesaf yn ansicr. Mae natur y marchnadeiddio a gyflwynwyd gan Lywodraeth y DU i’r sector addysg uwch dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf yn golygu, hyd yn oed nawr, fod ffactorau na fyddwn yn eu deall hyd nes bod y drefn ffioedd newydd yn dod i rym. Felly mae’n hanfodol bod gennym sefydliadau sy’n gadarn yn ariannol, ac mae hynny’n rheswm arall wrth wraidd ein hymagwedd at ad-drefnu. Yn gwbl gywir, cododd fy nghydweithiwr, yr Aelod dros Aberafan, fater cenhadaeth neu ddiben sefydliadau unigol, a byddem am sicrhau, mewn unrhyw sefyllfa uno fod diben priodol sefydliadau unigol yn cael ei gefnogi a’i atgyfnerthu. Byddem hefyd yn cydnabod y cyflawniadau a wnaed gan nifer o sefydliadau yng Nghymru o ran annog dysgwyr o gefndiroedd anhraddodiadol, ac yn wir, fel y dywedodd yn gywir, o ran datblygu addysg ran-amser. Un peth a welsom yng Nghymru, yn ogystal ag ar draws y DU yn ei chyfanrwydd, yw ehangiad neilltuol y Brifysgol Agored fel partner wrth ddarparu addysg uwch.

The Member raised the issue of the titles of the members of senior management, which he has brought before the Chamber before now. There is nothing like the full glare of publicity on senior management positions that are adopted in higher education for people in the wider public sphere to understand precisely what is going on. The report that we commissioned on the cost of administering education in Wales, which was carried out for us by PricewaterhouseCoopers, indicated some of the tensions that exist within the higher education sector in Wales.

Cododd yr Aelod fater teitlau’r aelodau sy’n uwch-reolwyr, a godwyd ganddo yn y Siambr cyn hyn. Nid oes dim fel llygad cyhoeddusrwydd ar swyddi uwch-reolwyr mewn addysg uwch i bobl yn y byd cyhoeddus ehangach ddeall yn union beth sy’n mynd ymlaen. Dangosodd yr adroddiad a gomisiynwyd gennym ar gost gweinyddu addysg yng Nghymru, a wnaed ar ein rhan gan PricewaterhouseCoopers, rai o’r tensiynau sy’n bodoli yn y sector addysg uwch yng Nghymru.

You will be familiar, given that you raised the issue of governance, with the McCormick review of governance in higher education. We will obviously be consulting on that in the context of the higher education Bill. I note the issues that he has raised in respect of staff and student representation, and those things will be taken forward as we move that agenda on.

O ystyried eich bod wedi codi mater llywodraethu, fe fyddwch chi’n gyfarwydd ag adolygiad McCormick ar lywodraethu mewn addysg uwch. Byddwn yn amlwg yn ymgynghori ar hynny yng nghyd-destun y Bil addysg uwch. Nodaf y materion y mae ef wedi eu codi mewn perthynas â staff a chynrychiolaeth myfyrwyr, a bydd y pethau hynny’n cael eu cyflwyno wrth inni symud yr agenda hwnnw ymlaen.

Simon Thomas: The Minister has made much of the fact that the Labour Party won the election—which it certainly did—however, it did not win a majority of votes or of seats in this Chamber. I therefore sense, from the Minister’s response to the consultation, the foot being eased off the pedal of forced mergers a little. To that degree, I welcome the Minister’s statement today. What is important for Plaid Cymru is that we see an improvement in our higher education system and sector as regards achievement, graduate employment and research opportunities in universities and within the sector in Wales. That is the most important thing that we want to concentrate on. We will measure some of the changes that the Minister set out today against those standards, rather than any artificial numbers or figures.

Simon Thomas: Mae’r Gweinidog wedi gwneud llawer o’r ffaith bod y Blaid Lafur wedi ennill yr etholiad—ac, yn sicr, fe wnaeth—fodd bynnag, ni lwyddodd i ennill mwyafrif o bleidleisiau neu seddi yn y Siambr hon. Synhwyraf felly, o ran ymateb y Gweinidog i’r ymgynghoriad, nad oes cymaint o bwysau ar y sbardun o ran gorfodi uno. O ran hynny, yr wyf yn croesawu datganiad y Gweinidog heddiw. Yr hyn sy’n bwysig i Blaid Cymru yw ein bod yn gweld gwelliant yn ein system addysg uwch a’r sector o ran cyflawniad, cyflogaeth graddedigion a chyfleoedd ymchwil mewn prifysgolion ac o fewn y sector yng Nghymru. Dyna’r peth pwysicaf yr ydym am ganolbwyntio arno. Byddwn yn mesur rhai o’r newidiadau y mae’r Gweinidog yn eu cyflwyno heddiw yn erbyn y safonau hynny, yn hytrach nag unrhyw rifau neu ffigurau artiffisial.

Having said that, I want to welcome what the Minister has said regarding the continuation of the emphasis on research at both Swansea and Cardiff universities. The HEFCW advice that he received said clearly that Cardiff should become the research university for Wales and should be recognised as one of the top 100 or 50—I cannot remember the exact figure off the top of my head. What does he have to say in response to that part of the HEFCW advice? What proposals does he have to support that ambition, or has he changed that slightly to look at both Cardiff and Swansea together?

Wedi dweud hynny, yr wyf am groesawu’r hyn a ddywedodd y Gweinidog ynglŷn â pharhad y pwyslais ar ymchwil yn y ddwy brifysgol yn Abertawe a Chaerdydd. Dywedodd CCAUC yn glir yn ei gyngor i’r Gweinidog y dylai Caerdydd ddod yn brifysgol ymchwil i Gymru ac y dylid ei chydnabod fel un o’r 100 neu 50 gorau—ni allaf gofio’r union ffigur yr eiliad hon. Beth sydd ganddo i’w ddweud wrth ymateb i’r rhan honno o’r cyngor CCAUC? Pa gynigion sydd ganddo i gefnogi’r uchelgais hwnnw, neu a yw wedi newid hwnnw ychydig i edrych ar Gaerdydd ac Abertawe gyda’i gilydd?

I welcome what he had to say about Aberystwyth and Bangor universities. Both universities are working hard together in several strategic research partnerships and are achieving some excellence in that regard. A forced merger at this stage over such a strange geography would derail them from the task. What we should really measure Bangor and Aberystwyth on now is whether they succeed in improving their postgraduate research and their postgraduate recruitment and retention. Neither university has a particularly good story to tell in some aspects of that area, and I am sure that both would want to improve, given the opportunity that they now have. It is also interesting to note that research councils look favourably on collaborative research between institutions. The setting up of research groups between Bangor and Aberystwyth has enabled them to open the door to further research council sources of funding, which, strangely and curiously, a merger would not allow them to achieve. There is a perverse incentive in that regard.

Croesawaf yr hyn sydd ganddo i’w ddweud am brifysgolion Aberystwyth a Bangor. Mae’r ddwy brifysgol yn gweithio’n galed gyda’i gilydd mewn nifer o bartneriaethau ymchwil strategol ac maent yn cyflawni rhagoriaeth yn hynny o beth. Byddai gorfodi uno ar hyn o bryd ar batrwm mor ryfedd yn eu bwrw nhw oddi ar gledrau eu tasg. Yr hyn y dylem fesur Bangor ac Aberystwyth yn ei erbyn yn awr yw pa un a ydynt yn llwyddo i wella eu gwaith ymchwil ôl-raddedig a’r gwaith o recriwtio a chadw uwchraddedigion. Nid oes gan yr un brifysgol stori arbennig o dda i’w hadrodd mewn rhai agweddau ar y maes hwnnw, ac yr wyf yn siŵr y byddai’r ddau am wella o ystyried y cyfle sydd ganddynt bellach. Mae hefyd yn ddiddorol nodi bod cynghorau ymchwil yn edrych yn ffafriol ar ymchwil cydweithredol rhwng sefydliadau. Mae sefydlu grwpiau ymchwil rhwng Bangor ac Aberystwyth wedi eu galluogi i agor y drws i ffynonellau pellach o gyllid gan gynghorau ymchwil, na fyddai uno yn eu galluogi i gyflawni yn rhyfedd ddigon. Mae cymhelliant gwrthnysig yn hynny o beth.

Turning to north-east Wales, I welcome what the Minister had to say about Glyndŵr University. There is a clear need for a HE presence in the north-east, as part of the delivery of HE throughout Wales. There are also developments in FE in the north-east between, for example, Coleg Llandrillo Cymru and Bangor, which needs to be examined as part of the consideration of the future of Glyndŵr University. I therefore reserve judgment, as the Minister himself does in his statement, as regards any future announcements on that.

Gan droi at ogledd-ddwyrain Cymru, croesawaf yr hyn yr oedd gan y Gweinidog i’w ddweud am Brifysgol Glyndŵr. Mae angen clir am gorff AU yn y gogledd-ddwyrain, fel rhan o gyflwyno AU ledled Cymru. Mae yna hefyd ddatblygiadau mewn AB yn y gogledd-ddwyrain rhwng, er enghraifft, Coleg Llandrillo Cymru a Bangor, ac mae angen archwilio hynny fel rhan o’r ystyriaeth am ddyfodol Prifysgol Glyndŵr. Felly, nid wyf am ddod i gasgliad eto, fel y mae’r Gweinidog ei hun yn ei wneud yn ei ddatganiad, o ran unrhyw gyhoeddiadau yn y dyfodol ar hynny.

It is, however, important to say in this regard that, although Plaid Cymru has all along supported the reconfiguration of the HE sector, and given that we have seen the HE sector respond to the challenges of previous Governments through reconfiguring itself, we have always wanted to do that in a voluntary and organic way, by having the right incentives in place and by getting rid of perverse incentives not to merge on occasions. However, we have never sought to force through any mergers. That is why we view the proposal in the south-east with some caution. The case has not yet been made for the large institution that the Minister would like to see in the south-east. It would be good to see the institutions there leave their egos behind and work together to achieve such a merger. I agree with that. However, at the moment, that is not the situation, and we are faced with the possibility of forcing such a merger through. I am not convinced that he should take that option at the moment.

Fodd bynnag, mae’n bwysig dweud yn y cyswllt hwn, er bod Plaid Cymru wedi cefnogi ad-drefnu’r sector AU ar hyd yr amser, ac o ystyried ein bod wedi gweld y sector AU yn ymateb i heriau Llywodraethau blaenorol trwy ad-drefnu ei hun, ein bod ni bob amser wedi bod yn awyddus i wneud hynny mewn ffordd wirfoddol ac organig, drwy gael y cymhellion cywir ar waith a thrwy gael gwared ar gymhellion gwrthnysig i beidio ag uno ar adegau. Fodd bynnag, nid ydym erioed wedi ceisio gorfodi unrhyw uno. Dyna pam yr ydym braidd yn bwyllog am y cynnig yn y de-ddwyrain. Nid yw’r achos wedi ei wneud eto o blaid y sefydliad mawr y byddai’r Gweinidog yn hoffi ei weld yn y de-ddwyrain. Byddai’n dda gweld y sefydliadau yno yn gadael eu hunanfalchder ar ôl ac yn gweithio gyda’i gilydd er mwyn gallu uno. Yr wyf yn cytuno â hynny. Fodd bynnag, ar hyn o bryd, nid dyna’r sefyllfa, ac yr ydym yn wynebu’r posibilrwydd o orfodi uno o’r fath. Nid wyf yn argyhoeddedig y dylai gymryd y dewis hwnnw ar hyn o bryd.

I have a couple of questions for the Minister about that option, as he is minded to take it. In the statement, he talks about a dissolution Order being made. Can he clarify whether he intends to dissolve all three institutions and then form a new metropolitan university, or will he, for example, keep Glamorgan, dissolve the other two, and allow Glamorgan to take over the other two? These sorts of questions could make a great deal of difference to the institutions concerned and to their attitude towards any possible mergers. He talks about campuses being widely distributed, as at present. Can he confirm that by that he means keeping every campus open? He will know that UWIC’s student newspaper claims to reveal secret plans by Glamorgan to close both the Caerleon and Cyncoed campuses. Will he confirm that his Government would like to see all campuses kept open if there was this new super metropolitan university for Glamorgan and Gwent?

Mae gennyf ychydig o gwestiynau i’r Gweinidog ynglŷn â’r opsiwn hwnnw, gan ei fod yn bwriadu ei gymryd. Yn y datganiad, mae’n sôn am Orchymyn diddymu yn cael ei wneud. A all egluro a yw’n bwriadu diddymu’r tri sefydliad a ffurfio prifysgol fetropolitan newydd, neu a fydd, er enghraifft, yn cadw Morgannwg, yn diddymu’r ddau arall, ac yn caniatáu Morgannwg i gymryd y ddau arall drosodd? Gallai’r mathau hyn o gwestiynau wneud llawer iawn o wahaniaeth i’r sefydliadau dan sylw ac i’w hagwedd tuag at unrhyw uno posibl. Mae’n sôn am gampysau mewn nifer fawr o leoliadau, fel y maent ar hyn o bryd. A all gadarnhau fod hynny’n golygu cadw pob campws ar agor? Bydd yn gwybod bod papur newydd myfyrwyr UWIC yn sôn am ddatgelu cynlluniau cyfrinachol gan Forgannwg i gau gampysau Caerllion a Chyncoed. A wnaiff e gadarnhau y byddai ei Lywodraeth yn hoffi gweld pob campws yn cael ei gadw ar agor pe bai prifysgol fetropolitan ehangach newydd ar gyfer Morgannwg a Gwent yn cael ei chreu?

He also mentioned the mergers in the south-west, which I support. They are voluntary merges, and we would like to see those go ahead. He also refers to a merger with the University of Wales as ‘potentially, but not necessarily also’. Can he clarify that? Does that mean that he will support the University of Wales going into University of Wales Trinity Saint David? I welcome what he said, and what HEFCW advised, on the future of training and medicine in Wales. In particular, there is an opportunity for north Wales and Bangor to take a role in medical training. I put it to him that that is one step that could be usefully pursued. I hope that he will give his support to that.

Soniodd hefyd am yr uno yn y de-orllewin, yr wyf yn ei gefnogi. Cyfuniadau gwirfoddol yw’r rhain, a byddem yn hoffi eu gweld yn digwydd. Mae hefyd yn cyfeirio at uno â Phrifysgol Cymru fel rhywbeth sydd ‘o bosibl, ond nid o reidrwydd, hefyd’. A all egluro hynny? A yw hynny’n golygu y bydd yn cefnogi Prifysgol Cymru yn dod yn Brifysgol Cymru Y Drindod Dewi Sant?  Yr wyf yn croesawu’r hyn a ddywedodd, a’r hyn y rhoddodd CCAUC gyngor arno, ar ddyfodol hyfforddiant a meddygaeth yng Nghymru. Yn benodol, mae cyfle i ogledd Cymru a Bangor gymryd rôl mewn hyfforddiant meddygol. Dywedaf wrtho fod hwnnw’n un cam y gellid ei gymryd yn ddefnyddiol. Yr wyf yn gobeithio y bydd yn rhoi ei gefnogaeth i hynny.

Finally, I ask him, or rather challenge him, in a sense, to ensure that every step he takes from now on is designed to increase the access of our poorest students to our higher education institutions, to ensure that our HE institutions offer the best undergraduate experience and undergraduate employment opportunities, and that he sets himself the real job of ensuring that the advice and aim within the ‘HEFCW Corporate Strategy’ of improving the research capabilities of Welsh universities really is delivered. We have talked about this for 10 years in this institution; it is time that we saw our research capabilities at higher education improve in Wales.

Yn olaf, gofynnaf iddo sicrhau, neu’n hytrach rwyf yn ei herio, ar ryw ystyr, i sicrhau bod pob cam y mae yn ei gymryd o hyn allan wedi’i gynllunio i gynyddu mynediad ein myfyrwyr tlotaf i’n sefydliadau addysg uwch, er mwyn sicrhau bod ein sefydliadau AU yn cynnig y profiad israddedig gorau a chyfleoedd cyflogaeth i israddedigion, a’i fod yn gosod i’w hun y gwaith go iawn o sicrhau bod y cyngor a’r nod o fewn ‘Strategaeth Gorfforaethol CCAUC’ o wella galluoedd ymchwil prifysgolion Cymru mewn gwirionedd yn cael ei gyflawni. Yr ydym wedi sôn am hyn am 10 mlynedd yn y sefydliad hwn; mae’n bryd i ni weld ein galluoedd ymchwil ym maes addysg uwch yn gwella yng Nghymru.

Leighton Andrews: I will start with the final comments of the Member. The issues he raised about encouraging participation from the poorest members of the community, improving the quality of the student experience and improving research performance were, of course, all objectives of the ‘For Our Future’ strategy, published by my predecessor Jane Hutt during the One Wales Government. I am glad that the Member reinforces the agenda of ‘For Our Future’. That is our strategy and we continue to implement it. There is no change there. In respect of the development of research, I am clear from my conversations with the research councils, and from my meeting with the chief scientific adviser and others, that there is much that we can do to strengthen collaboration and performance, and strengthen the amount of research money coming to Wales.

Leighton Andrews: Dechreuaf gyda sylwadau terfynol yr Aelod. Roedd y materion a gododd, sef annog cyfranogiad ymysg aelodau tlotaf y gymuned, gwella ansawdd profiad y myfyrwyr a gwella perfformiad ymchwil, wrth gwrs, i gyd yn amcanion yn strategaeth ‘Er Mwyn Ein Dyfodol’, a gyhoeddwyd gan fy rhagflaenydd Jane Hutt yn ystod Llywodraeth Cymru’n Un. Yr wyf yn falch bod yr Aelod yn atgyfnerthu agenda ‘Er Mwyn Ein Dyfodol’. Dyna ein strategaeth ac rydym yn parhau i’w gweithredu. Nid oes unrhyw newid yno. O ran datblygu ymchwil, yr wyf yn glir, o’m sgyrsiau gyda’r cynghorau ymchwil ac  o’m cyfarfod gyda’r prif gynghorydd gwyddonol ac eraill, nad oes llawer y gallwn ei wneud i gryfhau cydweithio a pherfformiad, ac i gryfhau’r swm o arian ymchwil sy’n dod i Gymru.

I will set out further objectives in respect of specific institutions and their research needs in the remit letter to HEFCW. Therefore, I will not be going into detail today on the relative merits of particular institutions and their performance. It is important that all Members refrain from becoming cheerleaders for this or that institution in higher education. All of them are capable of mounting persuasive and plausible cases; the issue for us, as Government, has to be the overall contribution to Wales, its economy, its society, its culture and so on.

Byddaf yn nodi amcanion pellach o ran sefydliadau penodol a’u hanghenion ymchwil yn y llythyr cylch gwaith i CCAUC. Felly, ni fyddaf yn mynd i fanylion heddiw am rinweddau cymharol sefydliadau penodol a’u perfformiad. Mae’n bwysig bod pob Aelod yn ymatal rhag bod yn chodwyr hwyl ar gyfer y sefydliad hwn neu hwnnw mewn addysg uwch. Mae pob un ohonynt yn gallu cyflwyno achosion argyhoeddiadol a chredadwy, ond rhaid i’r mater i ni, fel Llywodraeth, ymwneud â’r cyfraniad cyffredinol i Gymru, ei heconomi, ei chymdeithas, ei diwylliant ac yn y blaen.

In respect of what has been said in the statement on the University of Wales, the Member referred to the phrase, ‘potentially, but not necessarily’. That was from the original HEFCW advice that I was quoting, and clearly, events have moved along, and the University of Wales will become part of that merger in the south-west, and I have made previous statements in respect of the University of Wales.

O ran yr hyn a ddywedwyd yn y datganiad ar Brifysgol Cymru, cyfeiriodd yr Aelod at yr ymadrodd, ‘o bosibl, ond nid o reidrwydd’. Dyfynnu cyngor gwreiddiol CCAUC yr oeddwn ac, yn amlwg, mae digwyddiadau wedi symud ymlaen, a bydd Prifysgol Cymru yn dod yn rhan o’r uno hwnnw yn y de-orllewin, ac yr wyf wedi gwneud datganiadau o’r blaen mewn perthynas â Phrifysgol Cymru.

4.45 p.m.

I do not have anything further to add to those. When I made my statement on behalf of the One Wales Government in June last year, the Member was an advisor to that Government, and I am sure that he has not moved away from the policies that it adopted at the time, because I certainly have not in this regard. I am simply continuing to implement that policy in respect of higher education that I outlined in this Chamber in June 2010, which has been subsequently endorsed by the people of Wales in the manifesto to which I referred earlier.

Nid oes gennyf unrhyw beth pellach i’w ychwanegu atynt. Pan wneuthum fy natganiad ar ran Llywodraeth Cymru’n Un ym mis Mehefin y llynedd, yr oedd yr Aelod yn gynghorydd i’r Llywodraeth, ac yr wyf yn siŵr nad yw wedi symud oddi wrth y polisïau a fabwysiadodd ar y pryd, oherwydd nid wyf i, yn sicr, wedi gwneud hynny. Rwyf yn parhau i weithredu’r polisi hwnnw mewn perthynas ag addysg uwch a amlinellais yn y Siambr hon ym mis Mehefin 2010, sydd wedi cael ei gymeradwyo wedyn gan bobl Cymru yn y maniffesto y cyfeiriais ati yn gynharach.

We will look carefully with the three institutions in south-east Wales at the nature of a merged metropolitan university and a new university, as I described it, for Glamorgan and Gwent. When I made my statement in June last year, I said that this should not result in fewer students or fewer campuses, but it would probably mean fewer vice-chancellors. That remains our objective. We want to see widely dispersed campuses, as I said in the statement, as they are at present, throughout the Valleys, Cardiff and Newport.

Byddwn yn edrych yn ofalus gyda’r tri sefydliad yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru ar natur prifysgol fetropolitan wedi’i huno a phrifysgol newydd, fel y disgrifiais hi, ar gyfer Morgannwg a Gwent. Pan wneuthum fy natganiad ym mis Mehefin y llynedd, dywedais na ddylai hyn arwain at lai o fyfyrwyr neu lai o gampysau, ond mae’n debyg y byddai’n golygu llai o is-gangellorion. Dyna yw ein nod o hyd. Yr ydym am weld campysau wedi eu gwasgaru’n eang, fel y dywedais yn y datganiad, fel y maent ar hyn o bryd, drwy gydol y Cymoedd, Caerdydd a Chasnewydd.

Aled Roberts: Minister, I also thank you for your statement. I am sure that all parties in the Assembly share your aims. There is certainly nothing in the first few paragraphs with which any of us would disagree in terms of low participation, low aspiration and the deficit in research capacity. The difficulty that some of us have is the detail of the HEFCW proposals. Of course, this afternoon, you have not accepted all the proposals that were put forward. Some of us do have difficulty in understanding how institutions will move to a one-size-fits-all arrangement, as far as Wales is concerned—HEFCW certainly invited you to do that on the basis of one research-based institution and one new institution in each of the regions that it set out. I would be interested to know how supportive the 400 representations that you received to HEFCW’s original recommendations were.

Aled Roberts: Weinidog, rwyf i hefyd yn diolch i chi am eich datganiad. Yr wyf yn siŵr bod pob plaid yn y Cynulliad yn rhannu eich amcanion. Yn sicr, nid oes dim yn y paragraffau cyntaf y byddai unrhyw un ohonom yn anghytuno ag ef o ran cyfranogiad isel, dyheadau isel a’r diffyg mewn capasiti ymchwil. Yr anhawster i rai ohonom yw manylion cynigion Cyngor Cyllido Addysg Uwch Cymru. Wrth gwrs, y prynhawn yma, nid ydych wedi derbyn yr holl gynigion a gyflwynwyd. Mae rhai ohonom yn cael trafferth i ddeall sut y bydd sefydliadau yn symud i drefniant un-maint-i-bawb, cyn belled ag y mae Cymru yn y cwestiwn—yn sicr fe’ch gwahoddwyd gan y cyngor cyllido i wneud hynny ar y sail bod un sefydliad ymchwil ac un sefydliad newydd ym mhob un o’r rhanbarthau a bennwyd ganddo. Byddai gennyf ddiddordeb i wybod pa mor gefnogol oedd y 400 o sylwadau a gawsoch am argymhellion gwreiddiol y cyngor cyllido.

We have no difficulty in supporting increased collaboration and, in fact, mergers, provided that there is an evidence base for that way forward. From all the documentation that I have read, there appears to be very little evidence to support some of the proposals that were put forward. On the figure of 75 per cent of UK mean income, there is no evidence base as far as I can see to establish how Welsh higher education institutions would be more sustainable as a result of that way forward. I am pleased that it would appear that you have accepted that Bangor and Aberystwyth, in particular, are moving forward with the greater degree of collaboration that Simon Thomas referred to in their research areas, and that you have clearly indicated that you do not, at the moment, see that there is a need for those institutions to go towards full merger.

Nid oes gennym unrhyw anhawster cefnogi mwy o gydweithio ac, mewn gwirionedd, uno, ar yr amod bod tystiolaeth yn sail i’r ffordd honno ymlaen. O’r holl ddogfennau yr wyf wedi eu darllen, mae’n ymddangos bod ychydig iawn o dystiolaeth i gefnogi rhai o’r cynigion a gyflwynwyd. Ar y ffigur o 75 y cant o incwm canolrifol y DU, nid oes unrhyw dystiolaeth, hyd y gwelaf, am sut y byddai sefydliadau addysg uwch Cymru yn fwy cynaliadwy o ganlyniad. Yr wyf yn falch eich bod chi wedi derbyn, mae’n debyg, fod Bangor ac Aberystwyth, yn arbennig, yn symud ymlaen gyda’r lefel uwch o gydweithredu yn eu meysydd ymchwil y cyfeiriodd Simon Thomas ato, a’ch bod wedi nodi’n glir nad ydych, ar hyn o bryd, yn gweld bod angen i’r sefydliadau hynny symud tuag at uno llawn.  

I congratulate you on the stance that you have taken with regard to the north east, because it is clear that there was little support from any of the parties for HEFCW’s original proposals with regard to Glyndŵr University. With regard to the further review of the situation in north-east Wales, what do you perceive as being the main elements that will inform your decision with regard to any way forward? Simon Thomas referred to the collaboration between Llandrillo and Bangor, and you will be aware that there are currently strategic business cases being prepared between Deeside College and Yale College. Is there any scope for the involvement of Glyndŵr to be included in that scoping document? It would seem rather nonsensical, if you were minded to look at further collaboration between the HE and FE sectors in north-east Wales, to be faced with a situation where a new entity is created in the FE sector, but, some six or 12 months later, to have further developments involving Glyndŵr University.

Yr wyf yn eich llongyfarch ar eich safiad o ran y gogledd-ddwyrain, gan ei bod yn amlwg nad oedd cynigion gwreiddiol y cyngor cyllido mewn perthynas â Phrifysgol Glyndŵr wedi derbyn llawer o gefnogaeth gan unrhyw un o’r partïon. O ran yr adolygiad pellach o’r sefyllfa yng ngogledd-ddwyrain Cymru, beth yn eich barn chi fydd y prif elfennau a fydd yn llywio eich penderfyniad mewn perthynas ag unrhyw ffordd ymlaen? Cyfeiriodd Simon Thomas at y cydweithio rhwng Llandrillo a Bangor, a byddwch yn ymwybodol bod yna achosion busnes strategol yn cael eu paratoi rhwng Coleg Glannau Dyfrdwy a Choleg Iâl ar hyn o bryd. A oes unrhyw fodd cynnwys Glyndŵr yn y ddogfen gwmpasu? Mae’n ymddangos braidd yn hurt, os ydych yn dymuno edrych ar gydweithio pellach rhwng y sectorau addysg uwch ac addysg bellach yn y gogledd-ddwyrain, i wynebu sefyllfa lle mae endid newydd yn cael ei greu yn y sector addysg bellach, ond, rhyw chwech neu 12 mis yn ddiweddarach, i gael datblygiadau pellach ynghylch Prifysgol Glyndŵr.

Finally, it would appear that many of the union responses to the documentation may have been supportive, but, in many instances, they were dependent on there being assurances with regard to no compulsory redundancies in the university sector. Is the statement that you have outlined today predicated on the basis that there will be no compulsory redundancies in the sector?

Yn olaf, mae’n ymddangos bod llawer o ymatebion yr undebau i’r dogfennau wedi bod yn gefnogol, ond, mewn llawer o achosion, yr oeddent yn dibynnu ar sicrwydd na fydd diswyddiadau gorfodol yn y sector prifysgolion. A yw’r datganiad yr ydych wedi’i hamlinellu heddiw yn seiliedig ar y disgwyliad na fydd unrhyw ddiswyddiadau gorfodol yn y sector?

Leighton Andrews: I have a few comments on the contribution of the Liberal Democrats’ spokesperson. I think that he is the first person in the Chamber in the last 18 months to question the issue of the 75 per cent median—not mean—income as being the baseline for sustainability of Welsh higher education institutions. Certainly, when I outlined that in the Chamber in June 2010, I do not recall much disagreement around that, and there has not been much disagreement expressed to me subsequently. There are a lot of issues that I could mention with regard to the sustainability of Welsh higher education institutions. The situation is going to become that much more uncertain for all higher education institutions in the UK as a result of decisions that have been taken by the UK Government with regard to the new market in higher education and the decisions to go for full-cost fees.

Leighton Andrews: Mae gennyf rai sylwadau ar gyfraniad llefarydd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol. Yr wyf yn meddwl mai ef yw’r person cyntaf yn y Siambr yn y 18 mis diwethaf i gwestiynu defnyddio 75 y cant o incwm canolrifol—nid incwm cymedrig—fel llinell sylfaen ar gyfer cynaliadwyedd sefydliadau addysg uwch Cymru. Yn sicr, pan amlinellais hynny yn y Siambr ym mis Mehefin 2010, nid wyf yn cofio llawer o anghytuno yn ei gylch, ac nid wyf wedi clywed llawer o anghytuno ers hynny. Mae llawer o faterion y gallwn i sôn amdanynt o safbwynt cynaliadwyedd sefydliadau addysg uwch Cymru. Mae’r sefyllfa pob sefydliad addysg uwch yn y DU yn mynd i fod yn llawer mwy ansicr o ganlyniad i benderfyniadau mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi’u cymryd o ran y farchnad newydd mewn addysg uwch a’r penderfyniadau i fynd am ffioedd cost lawn.

There is uncertainty throughout the sector. We are trying to ensure that we plan our higher education system in Wales, as I have said before in the Chamber on a number of occasions, rather than leave it to the market. That means that we look to using all the instruments available to us, including the powers that we have under the 1988 Act for dissolution as a last resort, if we are to ensure that we have a coherently planned and sustainable sector. There is a body of evidence over the last decade in support of the reconfiguration and collaboration agenda in Wales, as evidenced by reports from committee after committee in the Assembly. I reject entirely the idea that there is little evidence to support that policy.

Mae ansicrwydd ar draws y sector. Yr ydym yn ceisio sicrhau ein bod yn cynllunio ar gyfer ein system addysg uwch yng Nghymru, fel yr wyf wedi dweud o’r blaen yn y Siambr ar sawl achlysur, yn hytrach na’i gadael i’r farchnad. Golyga hynny ein bod yn anelu at ddefnyddio’r holl offer sydd ar gael i ni, gan gynnwys y pwerau diddymu sydd gennym o dan Ddeddf 1988 fel y dewis olaf, os ydym am sicrhau bod gennym sector sydd wedi ei gynllunio yn gydlynol ac sy’n gynaliadwy. Cafwyd tystiolaeth gref dros y ddegawd ddiwethaf i gefnogi’r agenda ail-gyflunio a chydweithio yng Nghymru, fel y’i gwelir yn adroddiadau pwyllgor ar ôl pwyllgor yn y Cynulliad. Gwrthodaf yn llwyr y syniad nad oes llawer o dystiolaeth i gefnogi’r polisi hwnnw.

In respect of north-east Wales, I will come forward with a further announcement in due course as to how we intend to review the provision of higher education. That will relate as well to how higher education sits alongside further education in north-east Wales. That would be one of the subjects that I would expect us to review in due course.

O ran y gogledd-ddwyrain, byddaf yn gwneud cyhoeddiad pellach maes o law ynghylch sut yr ydym yn bwriadu adolygu darpariaeth addysg uwch. Bydd hynny hefyd yn ymwneud â sut y mae addysg uwch yn eistedd ochr yn ochr ag addysg bellach yn y gogledd-ddwyrain. Bydd hynny un o’r pynciau y disgwyliwn i ni eu hadolygu maes o law.

In respect of the issue that he raised about the question of no compulsory redundancies in higher education, I have to say, I am afraid, that on the day that his Government in London has outlined proposals to undermine employment legislation, I am not going to be taking any lectures from the Liberal Democrats’ spokesperson on employment law. [Interruption.]

O ran y mater a gododd ef am beidio â chael diswyddiadau gorfodol mewn addysg uwch, mae’n rhaid i mi ddweud, mae arnaf ofn, ar y diwrnod y mae ei Lywodraeth yn Llundain wedi amlinellu cynigion i danseilio deddfwriaeth cyflogaeth, nad wyf yn mynd i dderbyn bregeth gan lefarydd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol ar gyfraith cyflogaeth. [Torri ar draws.]

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. We are out of time for this item, but, given its importance, I am keen to call three more Members. However, I will limit you each to one minute, so please be succinct and focused.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Yr ydym allan o amser ar gyfer yr eitem hon, ond, o ystyried ei bwysigrwydd, yr wyf yn awyddus i alw tri Aelod arall. Fodd bynnag, byddaf yn eich cyfyngu i funud yr un, felly byddwch yn gryno ac yn benodol, os gwelwch yn dda.

Kenneth Skates: Thank you, Minister, for an outstanding statement today. After last week’s announcement on the extension of the area of outstanding natural beauty and this today, the people of north-east Wales need no greater proof that their interests are at the heart of this Labour Government.

Kenneth Skates: Diolch i chi, Weinidog, am ddatganiad eithriadol heddiw. Ar ôl cyhoeddiad yr wythnos diwethaf ar ymestyn yr ardal o harddwch naturiol eithriadol a chyhoeddiad hwn heddiw, nid oes angen mwy o brawf ar bobl y gogledd-ddwyrain bod eu buddiannau wrth galon y Llywodraeth Lafur hon.

I was going to keep it brief anyway, but I will quickly head to the brief questions that I have regarding today’s announcement. It is essential for north-east Wales, which is one of the most economically productive areas of Wales, that we have a university allied to the manufacturing and economic needs of the region. What assurances can you give that this will be at the heart of Glyndŵr University’s future structure?

Yr oeddwn yn mynd i fod yn gryno beth bynnag, ond byddaf yn troi’n gyflym at y cwestiynau cryno sydd gennyf ynghylch cyhoeddiad heddiw. Mae’n hanfodol i’r gogledd-ddwyrain, sydd yn un o’r ardaloedd mwyaf cynhyrchiol Cymru yn economaidd, fod gennym brifysgol sy’n gyd-fynd ag anghenion gweithgynhyrchu ac economaidd y rhanbarth. Pa sicrwydd y gallwch ei roi y bydd hyn wrth wraidd strwythur Prifysgol Glyndŵr yn y dyfodol?

Secondly, one key question in the original HEFCW report was about the inconsistency in some of the arguments used to justify the recommendations. For example, there was no explanation relating to the scale chosen for each of the regions or acknowledgement of the natural communities that universities serve. Similarly, the geographic challenges of reform were underplayed. Will this be different moving forward?

Yn ail, un cwestiwn allweddol yn adroddiad gwreiddiol y cyngor cyllido oedd ynghylch yr anghysondeb yn rhai o’r dadleuon a ddefnyddiwyd i gyfiawnhau’r argymhellion. Er enghraifft, nid oedd unrhyw esboniad o ran y raddfa a ddewiswyd ar gyfer pob un o’r rhanbarthau neu gydnabyddiaeth o’r cymunedau naturiol y mae prifysgolion yn eu gwasanaethu. Yn yr un modd, cafodd y heriau daearyddol diwygio eu bychanu. A fydd hyn yn wahanol wrth symud ymlaen?

Leighton Andrews: I thank the Member for Clwyd South for his comments. In reviewing the provision of higher education in north-east Wales, we will seek to ensure that we have a higher education system that is capable of delivering in the round for the people, the economy and the society of north-east Wales. That means that we need to look at the deficiencies in the current provision of higher education in north-east Wales, as well as the advantages of current provision.

Leighton Andrews: Diolch i’r Aelod dros Dde Clwyd am ei sylwadau. Wrth adolygu darpariaeth addysg uwch yn y gogledd-ddwyrain, byddwn yn ceisio sicrhau bod gennym system addysg uwch sy’n gallu cyflawni ar gyfer pobl, economi a chymdeithas y gogledd-ddwyrain yn gyffredinol. Mae hynny’n golygu bod angen i ni edrych ar ddiffygion darpariaeth bresennol addysg uwch yn y gogledd-ddwyrain, yn ogystal â manteision y ddarpariaeth bresennol.

Mark Isherwood: Referring to north Wales, Aberystwyth and Bangor are already developing a strategic partnership. You do not expect that to progress to a formal merger at this stage, although you remind us that you have such powers to use as a last resort. Can you honestly envisage either of those universities reaching a position where they would need that intervention as a last resort, unless funding is withheld from them because of decisions taken here?

Mark Isherwood: A chyfeirio at ogledd Cymru, mae Aberystwyth a Bangor eisoes yn datblygu partneriaeth strategol. Nid ydych yn disgwyl i hynny symud ymlaen i uno ffurfiol ar hyn o bryd, er eich bod yn ein hatgoffa bod gennych bwerau o’r fath i’w defnyddio fel y dewis olaf. A allwch chi wir yn rhagweld un o’r prifysgolion hynny yn cyrraedd sefyllfa lle byddent angen yr ymyrraeth honno fel y dewis olaf, oni bai bod cyllid yn cael ei gadw oddi wrthynt oherwydd penderfyniadau a wneir yma?

In terms of north-east Wales, you are examining further options. Given that the Glyndŵr University friends group was chaired by the chair of Redrow, that the campaign to maintain the independence of the university has been supported by all the major local industries and employers, and that the friends group said that the HEFCW proposals would have had a detrimental effect on both Glyndŵr and the wider economy of north Wales, will you make a commitment to consult business and industry in the region to determine the content of your statements? Will you be minded to consider what you heard when you attended the drawing up of the memorandum of understanding between Glyndŵr and Yale College early last year?

O ran y gogledd-ddwyrain, yr ydych yn edrych ar opsiynau pellach. O ystyried y cafodd grŵp cyfeillion Prifysgol Glyndŵr ei gadeirio gan gadeirydd Redrow, fod yr ymgyrch i gadw annibyniaeth y brifysgol wedi cael ei gefnogi gan yr holl ddiwydiannau a chyflogwyr lleol mawr, ac y dywedodd y grŵp cyfeillion y byddai cynigion y cyngor cyllido wedi cael effaith andwyol ar Glyndŵr ac economi ehangach y gogledd ill dau, a wnewch chi ymrwymo i ymgynghori â busnes a diwydiant yn y rhanbarth er mwyn pennu cynnwys eich datganiadau? A fyddwch yn bwriadu ystyried yr hyn a glywsoch chi pan oeddech yn bresennol ar gyfer lunio’r memorandwm cyd-ddealltwriaeth rhwng Glyndŵr a Choleg Iâl yn gynnar y llynedd?

Leighton Andrews: I have great confidence in the new leadership of Bangor and Aberystwyth universities and in the efforts that have been made there to strengthen the research base of both institutions. In case my statement is misinterpreted, let me say that I also had great confidence in the previous leaders. Both institutions have been seeking to deepen their collaboration, and that is important.

Leighton Andrews: Mae gennyf hyder mawr yn arweinyddiaeth newydd prifysgolion Bangor ac Aberystwyth ac yn yr ymdrechion a wnaed yno i gryfhau sylfaen ymchwil y ddau sefydliad. Rhag ofn i’m datganiad gael ei gamddehongli, gadewch i mi ddweud yr oedd gennyf hyder mawr yn yr arweinwyr blaenorol hefyd. Mae’r ddau sefydliad wedi bod yn ceisio dyfnhau eu cydweithrediad, ac mae hynny’n bwysig.

In respect of north-east Wales, it is, of course, important that we have institutions that are capable of engaging with local employers. It is important that we have institutions that are capable of engaging with the anchor companies in Wales, and that has been an objective of our economic development strategies as well as our higher education policies. Certainly, what I would envisage in any review of provision in north-east Wales is that we will be looking to strengthen the contribution higher education makes to the region. That will mean that we have to look at some of the deficiencies as well as the advantages.

O ran y gogledd-ddwyrain, y mae, wrth gwrs, yn bwysig fod gennym sefydliadau sy’n gallu ymgysylltu â chyflogwyr lleol. Mae’n bwysig bod gennym sefydliadau sy’n gallu ymgysylltu â cwmnïau angori Cymru, ac mae hynny wedi bod yn amcan ein strategaethau datblygu economaidd yn ogystal â’n polisïau addysg uwch. Yn sicr, yr hyn y byddwn yn rhagweld mewn unrhyw adolygiad o’r ddarpariaeth yn y gogledd-ddwyrain yw y byddwn yn ceisio cryfhau’r cyfraniad mae addysg uwch yn ei wneud i’r rhanbarth. Bydd hynny’n golygu bod yn rhaid i ni edrych ar rai o’r diffygion yn ogystal â’r manteision.

Jenny Rathbone: I am afraid that I cannot quite share the enthusiasm of the Member for Clwyd South, but I am looking at it from the other end of the telescope. There are three universities in Cardiff Central, and two of them are affected by the suggested merger between the University of Glamorgan, the University of Wales, Newport, and Cardiff Metropolitan University. It does not really meet the test of businesses that need to be dynamic, innovative and have an international perspective. All businesses need to do that. Above all, in the very difficult climate they now face, universities need to do that. Above all, they need to be focused on the student experience. I fail to understand how having a campus of 43,000 students, which is the largest in the UK of any campus-based university, across nine campuses is really going to deliver that student experience. I have had many representations from students at Cardiff Metropolitan University and they are particularly concerned about what it would mean for the distinctiveness of that university, which has really established a niche market in certain areas, something that is reflected in the number of international students it now has, following an increase of, I think, nearly 400 per cent in the last five years. Therefore, I urge the Minister to look again, because I do not think that it meets the test of being dynamic, effective and efficient.

Jenny Rathbone: Mae arnaf ofn na allaf  rannu brwdfrydedd yr Aelod dros Dde Clwyd yn llwyr, ond yr wyf yn edrych arno o ben arall y telesgop. Mae tair prifysgol yng Nghanol Caerdydd, ac mae dau ohonynt yn cael eu heffeithio gan yr uno a awgrymwyd rhwng Prifysgol Morgannwg, Prifysgol Cymru, Casnewydd, a Phrifysgol Fetropolitan Caerdydd. Nid yw wir yn bodloni prawf busnesau sydd angen bod yn ddeinamig ac arloesol ac sydd â phersbectif rhyngwladol. Mae angen i bob busnes wneud hynny. Yn fwy na dim, yn yr hinsawdd anodd iawn y maent yn eu hwynebu yn awr, mae angen i brifysgolion wneud hynny. Yn fwy na dim, mae angen iddynt ganolbwyntio ar brofiad y myfyrwyr. Ni allaf ddeall sut mae cael campws o 43,000 o fyfyrwyr, sef y mwyaf yn y DU o ran prifysgol sydd wedi ei seilio ar gampws, ar draws naw campws, yn mynd i gyflawni’r profiad myfyriwr hwnnw mewn gwirionedd. Yr wyf wedi derbyn llawer o sylwadau gan fyfyrwyr ym Mhrifysgol Fetropolitan Caerdydd ac maent yn arbennig o bryderus am yr hyn y byddai’n ei olygu i hynodrwydd y brifysgol, sydd wir wedi sefydlu marchnad arbenigol mewn meysydd penodol, a gaiff ei adlewyrchu yn nifer y myfyrwyr rhyngwladol sydd ganddi erbyn hyn, yn dilyn cynnydd o bron i 400 y cant, mi gredaf, yn y pum mlynedd diwethaf. Felly, annogaf y Gweinidog i edrych eto, oherwydd nid wyf yn credu ei fod yn bodloni’r prawf o fod yn ddeinamig, yn effeithiol ac yn effeithlon.

Leighton Andrews: I have to disagree with my colleague the Member for Cardiff Central in that case, I am afraid. The proposals that we have put forward have come about through extensive discussion, and we will carry on the discussion with individual institutions. Great strides have been made by a number of institutions. The international expansion of each of the three institutions in south-east Wales—Cardiff Metropolitan University, the University of Wales, Newport, and the University of Glamorgan—has been very significant, and I have seen innovative and creative work being undertaken in each of the institutions. I would counsel any Member in this Chamber against becoming a lobbyist for any particular institution. I do not think that is where we should be in this institution. We need to ensure that we are representing the wider interests of our communities and the interests of the Welsh public and, overall, the interests of the Welsh economy and society. That is what we are seeking to do with our higher education policy here. Finally, I have to say to the Member that it was very clear what we intended to do in the manifesto on which we were elected.

Leighton Andrews: Mae’n rhaid i mi anghytuno gyda’m cyd-Aelod yr Aelod dros Ganol Caerdydd yn yr achos hwnnw, mae arnaf ofn. Mae’r cynigion yr ydym wedi’u cyflwyno wedi’u creu o ganlyniad i drafodaeth helaeth, a byddwn yn parhau’r drafodaeth gyda sefydliadau unigol. Mae nifer o sefydliadau wedi gwneud camau breision. Mae ehangu rhyngwladol pob un o’r tri sefydliad yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru—Prifysgol Fetropolitan Caerdydd, Prifysgol Cymru, Casnewydd, a Phrifysgol Morgannwg—wedi bod yn sylweddol iawn, ac yr wyf wedi gweld gwaith arloesol a chreadigol yn cael ei wneud ym mhob un o’r sefydliadau. Yr wyf yn cynghori unrhyw Aelod yn y Siambr hon yn erbyn dod yn lobïwr ar gyfer unrhyw sefydliad penodol. Nid wyf yn credu mai dyna beth y dylem fod yn ei wneud yn y sefydliad hwn. Mae angen i ni sicrhau ein bod yn cynrychioli buddiannau ehangach ein cymunedau a buddiannau’r cyhoedd yng Nghymru ac, yn gyffredinol, buddiannau’r economi a chymdeithas Cymru. Dyna’r hyn yr ydym yn ceisio ei wneud â’n polisi addysg uwch yma. Yn olaf, mae’n rhaid i mi ddweud wrth yr Aelod yr oedd yr hyn yr oeddem yn bwriadu ei wneud yn glir iawn yn y maniffesto y cawsom ein hethol arno.

5.00 p.m.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Thank you, Minister.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Diolch, Weinidog.

Datganiad: Cyflwyno Bil Is-ddeddfau Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru)

Statement: Introduction of the Local Government Byelaws (Wales) Bill

The Minister for Local Government and Communities (Carl Sargeant): Yesterday, I laid the Local Government Byelaws (Wales) Bill, together with an explanatory memorandum, before the National Assembly for Wales. I also issued a written statement and I am pleased to introduce the Bill for Assembly Members’ consideration today.

Y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau (Carl Sargeant): Ddoe, cyflwynais y Bil Is-ddeddfau Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru), ynghyd â memorandwm esboniadol, gerbron Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru. Cyhoeddais ddatganiad ysgrifenedig hefyd ac yr wyf yn falch o gyflwyno’r Bil ar gyfer ystyriaeth Aelodau’r Cynulliad heddiw.

The Bill addresses our commitment to consider and consult on potential changes to simplify the process for making local government bye-laws in Wales, which was contained in the 2007 local government policy statement, ‘A Shared Responsibility’. Consultation in 2010 demonstrated positive support for simplification of the bye-law process by removing the requirement for confirmation by Welsh Ministers and introducing fixed penalty notices as a more effective alternative to enforcement through the magistrates courts. The Bill makes provision for, and in connection with, the powers of county councils, county borough councils, community councils and other public bodies to make and revoke bye-laws, the procedure for making, confirming and coming into force of such bye-laws and their enforcement. This is the first Bill to be introduced since the National Assembly for Wales obtained greater legislative competence as a result of the 2011 referendum, which was an historic day. The Bill consolidates and modifies, where appropriate, existing bye-law-making provisions from the Local Government Act 1972. This makes the key legislative provisions for making and enforcing bye-laws more accessible and begins the process of developing a Welsh statute book. 

Mae’r Bil yn ymdrin â’n hymrwymiad i ystyried ac ymgynghori ar newidiadau posibl i symleiddio’r broses ar gyfer gwneud is-ddeddfau llywodraeth leol yng Nghymru, a oedd wedi’i gynnwys yn y datganiad polisi llywodraeth leol yn 2007, ‘Rhannu Cyfrifoldeb’. Dangosodd ymgynghoriad yn 2010 gefnogaeth gadarnhaol i symleiddio proses is-ddeddfau lleol drwy gael gwared ar y gofyniad am gadarnhad gan Weinidogion Cymru a chyflwyno hysbysiadau cosb benodedig fel dewis amgen mwy effeithiol na gorfodaeth drwy’r llysoedd ynadon. Mae’r Bil yn gwneud darpariaeth ar gyfer, ac mewn cysylltiad â, phwerau cynghorau sir, cynghorau bwrdeistref sirol, cynghorau cymuned a chyrff cyhoeddus eraill i wneud ac i ddirymu is-ddeddfau, y weithdrefn ar gyfer gwneud, cadarnhau a gweithredu is-ddeddfau o’r fath a’u gorfodi. Hwn yw’r Bil cyntaf i gael ei gyflwyno ers i Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru gael mwy o gymhwysedd deddfwriaethol o ganlyniad i refferendwm 2011, a oedd yn ddiwrnod hanesyddol. Mae’r Bil yn cydgrynhoi ac yn addasu, fel ’y bo’n briodol, y darpariaethau ar gyfer gwneud is-ddeddfau sy’n bodoli ’yn Neddf Llywodraeth Leol 1972. Mae hyn yn gwneud y darpariaethau deddfwriaethol allweddol ar gyfer gwneud a gorfodi is-ddeddfau yn fwy hygyrch, ac mae’n dechrau’r broses o ddatblygu llyfr statud i Gymru.

The provisions contained in the Bill can be grouped into a number of key areas. First, the Bill consolidates the widely used power in section 235 of the 1972 Act, which enables county and county borough councils to make bye-laws for the good rule and government of their areas and for the prevention and suppression of nuisances. For example, this power may typically be used to prohibit dangerous or nuisance skateboarding or ball games near a highway.

Gall y darpariaethau a gynhwysir yn y Bil gael eu grwpio i mewn i nifer o feysydd allweddol. Yn gyntaf, mae’r Bil yn cydgrynhoi’r pŵer yn adran 235 o Ddeddf 1972, a gaiff ei ddefnyddio’n eang, sy’n galluogi cynghorau sir a chynghorau bwrdeistref sirol i wneud is-ddeddfau ar gyfer rheoli da a llywodraethu yn eu hardaloedd ac ar gyfer atal a dileu niwsans. Er enghraifft, gellir defnyddio’r pŵer hwn yn nodweddiadol i wahardd sgrialu neu gemau pêl sy’n beryglus neu’n peri niwsans yn agos at briffordd.

Secondly, the Bill recasts, in part, section 236B of the 1972 Act. It provides a power for a relevant authority to revoke or amend bye-laws where no other power to do so exists. It also provides a power for Welsh Ministers to revoke obsolete bye-laws, where this proves necessary.

Yn ail, mae’r Bil yn ail-lunio, yn rhannol, adran 236B yn Neddf 1972. Mae’n darparu pŵer i awdurdod perthnasol ddirymu neu ddiwygio is-ddeddfau lle nad oes unrhyw bŵer arall i wneud hynny yn bodoli. Mae hefyd yn darparu pŵer i Weinidogion Cymru ddirymu is-ddeddfau anarferedig, lle caiff hyn ei brofi’n angenrheidiol.

Thirdly, the Bill sets out procedures for making bye-laws, which are at the heart of this Bill. It contains an alternative procedure for the making and coming into force of those bye-laws that no longer require confirmation by Welsh Ministers. Bye-laws are local laws that seek to address local issues. We believe that local government is best placed to take responsibility for making the majority of bye-laws without input from Welsh Ministers. We expect local authorities to consult with local people and to consider their views carefully before introducing bye-laws. Where confirmation by Welsh Ministers is required, consultation is regarded as essential good practice and a precursor to confirmation. In the alternative procedure, Welsh Government scrutiny is replaced by accountability and scrutiny at a local level and the Bill provides for thorough consultation at an early stage of the process. I recognise that some bye-laws, such as those for sites of special scientific interest and national parks, can be controversial and there is merit in retaining the confirmation procedure. This engages the Welsh Government in the resolution of possible objections before a bye-law is confirmed. 

Yn drydydd, mae’r Bil yn nodi’r gweithdrefnau ar gyfer gwneud is-ddeddfau, sydd wrth wraidd y Bil hwn. Mae’n cynnwys gweithdrefn amgen ar gyfer gwneud a gweithredu’r is-ddeddfau hynny nad oes arnynt angen cadarnhad bellach gan Weinidogion Cymru. Mae is-ddeddfau yn ddeddfau lleol sy’n ceisio mynd i’r afael â materion lleol. Credwn mai llywodraeth leol sydd yn y sefyllfa orau i gymryd cyfrifoldeb am wneud y rhan fwyaf o is-ddeddfau heb fewnbwn oddi wrth Weinidogion Cymru. Yr ydym yn disgwyl i awdurdodau lleol ymgynghori â phobl leol ac ystyried eu barn yn ofalus cyn cyflwyno is-deddfau. Lle mae angen cadarnhad gan Weinidogion Cymru, ystyrir ymgynghoriad fel arfer da hanfodol ac yn rhywbeth i ragflaenu cadarnhad. Yn y weithdrefn amgen, ’disodlir y gwaith craffu gan Lywodraeth Cymru gan atebolrwydd a chraffu ar lefel leol, ac mae’r Bil yn darparu ar gyfer ymgynghori trylwyr yn gynnar yn y broses. Yr wyf yn cydnabod y gall rhai is-ddeddfau, fel y rhai ar gyfer safleoedd o ddiddordeb gwyddonol arbennig a pharciau cenedlaethol, fod yn ddadleuol, ac mae’ gwerth mewn cadw’r weithdrefn gadarnhau. Mae hyn yn ymgysylltu Llywodraeth Cymru â datrys gwrthwynebiadau posibl cyn cadarnhau’r is-ddeddf.

Fourthly, the Bill recasts the existing enforcement provisions of the 1972 Act and updates the scale of fines payable by using the guidelines provided by the Criminal Justice Act 1982. The Bill also introduces fixed penalty notices as an alternative to enforcement through the magistrates courts. Fixed penalty notices offer an efficient and effective enforcement procedure and bring the enforcement of bye-laws onto the same footing as the enforcement of other low-level nuisance activities. Fixed penalty notices are an optional method of enforcement under the Bill and enforcement in the magistrates courts may still be used.

Yn bedwerydd, mae’r Bil yn ail-lunio darpariaethau gorfodi presennol Deddf 1972 ac yn diweddaru’r raddfa o ddirwyon sy’n daladwy drwy ddefnyddio’r canllawiau a ddarperir gan Ddeddf Cyfiawnder Troseddol 1982. Mae’r Bil hefyd yn cyflwyno hysbysiadau cosb benodedig fel dewis amgen i orfodi drwy’r llysoedd ynadon. Mae hysbysiadau cosb benodedig yn cynnig gweithdrefn gorfodi effeithiol ac effeithlon ac yn rhoi gorfodi is-ddeddfau ar yr un sail â gorfodi gweithgareddau niwsans lefel isel arall. Mae hysbysiadau cosb benodedig yn ddull dewisol o orfodi o dan y Bil, a gellir defnyddio gorfodi yn y llysoedd ynadon o hyd.

The Bill contains two schedules. Part 1 of Schedule 1 lists those bye-law-making powers that are subject to the alternative procedure and Part 2 of Schedule 1 lists those enactments under which bye-laws may be enforced by means of fixed penalties. Welsh Ministers have powers to amend the bye-laws specified in Schedule 1 through subordinate legislation. This will enable Welsh Ministers to respond effectively when the need for change arises. The exercise of these powers is subject to the prior approval of the National Assembly for Wales, thus ensuring that there is an appropriate mechanism for full scrutiny. Schedule 2 to the Bill details minor and consequential amendments to the other enactments that contain bye-law-making provisions.

Mae’r Bil yn cynnwys dwy atodlen. Mae Rhan 1 o Atodlen 1 yn rhestru’r pwerau ar gyfer gwneud yr is-ddeddfau hynny sy’n ddarostyngedig i’’r weithdrefn amgen ac mae Rhan 2 o Atodlen 1 yn rhestru’r deddfiadau hynny sy’n galluogi is-ddeddfau i gael eu gorfodi drwy gosbau penodedig. Mae gan Weinidogion Cymru bwerau i ddiwygio’r is-ddeddfau a bennir yn Atodlen 1 drwy is-ddeddfwriaeth. Bydd hyn yn galluogi Gweinidogion Cymru i ymateb yn effeithiol pan fydd yr angen am newid yn codi. Mae arfer y pwerau hyn yn ddarostyngedig i gymeradwyaeth Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, gan sicrhau felly bod mecanwaith priodol ar gyfer craffu llawn. Mae Atodlen 2 y Bil yn manylu ar welliannau mân a chanlyniadol i’r deddfiadau eraill sy’n cynnwys darpariaethau ar gyfer gwneud is-ddeddfau.

Members will be pleased to note that this is a transparent piece of legislation, which has very little recourse to secondary legislation. Where subordinate powers and statutory guidance provisions are specified, it is to facilitate flexibility, clarity and detail that would not be appropriate on the face of the Bill. The Bill supports the Welsh Government’s wider aims for simplification and the reduction of bureaucracy. The dual system for the making and enforcement of bye-laws will facilitate a more timely and direct response by local government to local problems. The Bill also recognises the value of the principle of subsidiarity with the aim that democracy at a local level will be enhanced and the capacity of local government to serve its citizens will be improved. To conclude, I look forward to working with Assembly Members and others with an interest in local laws in scrutinising the Bill over the coming months. 

Bydd Aelodau yn falch o glywed bod hyn yn ddarn tryloyw o ddeddfwriaeth, lle nad oes llawer o angen troi at is-ddeddfwriaeth. Lle caiff is-bwerau a darpariaethau canllawiau statudol eu nodi, mae hynny er mwyn hwyluso hyblygrwydd, eglurder a manylder na fyddai’n briodol ar wyneb y Bil. Mae’r Bil yn cefnogi amcanion ehangach Llywodraeth Cymru i symleiddio a lleihau biwrocratiaeth. Bydd y system ddeuol ar gyfer gwneud a gorfodi is-ddeddfau yn hwyluso ymateb mwy amserol ac uniongyrchol gan lywodraeth leol i broblemau lleol. Mae’r Bil hefyd yn cydnabod gwerth yr egwyddor o sybsidiaredd gyda’r nod y bydd democratiaeth ar lefel leol yn well ac y bydd gallu llywodraeth leol i wasanaethu ei dinasyddion yn gwella. I gloi, edrychaf ymlaen at weithio gydag Aelodau’’r Cynulliad ac eraill sydd â diddordeb mewn deddfwriaeth leol wrth graffu ar y Bil dros y misoedd nesaf.

Janet Finch-Saunders: Minister, I welcome the statement that you have made today. It is fair to say that Members on this side of the Chamber certainly embrace any approaches that the Welsh Government makes regarding empowering local authorities and instituting true devolution, putting power back in the hands of local authorities. I have some questions on a few points that I would like you to clarify. However, over the next few months, I look forward to working with you as this goes through the scrutiny process.

Janet Finch-Saunders: Weinidog, croesawaf y datganiad a wnaed gennych heddiw. Mae’n deg i ddweud bod yr Aelodau ar ochr hon y Siambr yn sicr yn croesawu unrhyw gynigion gan Lywodraeth Cymru o ran grymuso awdurdodau lleol a chyflwyno gwir ddatganoli, gan roi pŵer yn ôl yn nwylo’r awdurdodau lleol. Mae gennyf rai cwestiynau ar ychydig o bwyntiau yr hoffwn i chi eu hegluro. Fodd bynnag, dros yr ychydig fisoedd nesaf, edrychaf ymlaen at weithio gyda chi wrth i hyn fynd drwy’r broses graffu.

I would like to ask you about the wording of section 5(1) of the proposed Bill, which states that Welsh Ministers may, by Order, revoke any bye-law made by a legislating authority that they think is obsolete. I will be looking for clarification regarding the way in which you will decide which bye-laws are obsolete.

Hoffwn ofyn i chi am eiriad adran 5(1) o’r Bil arfaethedig, sy’n datgan y caiff Gweinidogion Cymru, drwy Orchymyn, ddirymu unrhyw is-ddeddf a wnaed gan awdurdod deddfu y maent yn credu ei fod wedi darfod â bod. Byddaf yn edrych am eglurhad ynghylch y ffordd y byddwch yn penderfynu pa is-ddeddfau sy’n anarferedig.

I embrace the fact that you are now placing upon local authorities the responsibility for holding consultation with local residents. As is the case with statements and strategies presented by the Welsh Government, the way in which we engage with local communities is important. This first Bill will be a good way of testing how that works.

Croesawaf y ffaith eich bod yn awr yn gosod ar awdurdodau lleol y cyfrifoldeb am gynnal yr ymgynghori â thrigolion lleol. Fel yn achos datganiadau a strategaethau a gyflwynir gan Lywodraeth Cymru, mae’r ffordd y ydym yn ymgysylltu â chymunedau lleol yn bwysig. Bydd y Bil cyntaf hwn yn ffordd dda o brofi sut mae hynny’n gweithio.

Minister, I welcome the statement. I look forward to receiving the Bill as it starts to come through and I look forward to working with you as we scrutinise it.

Weinidog, croesawaf y datganiad. Edrychaf ymlaen at weld y Bil wrth iddo ddechrau dod yn ei flaen, ac edrychaf ymlaen at weithio gyda chi wrth inni graffu arno.

Carl Sargeant: I thank the Member for her comments and, of course, I look forward to working with the committee to take this forward. In terms of the powers of Welsh Ministers to revoke laws, this is not a new thing. This has happened and is a consideration in the discussions happening beyond the Chamber in relation to some of the Orders that are currently in place within local authorities. We are seeking to devolve functions to local authorities with regard to bye-laws and I welcome the Member’s comments regarding taking this forward. Bye-laws are an effective and useful method for dealing with local issues, which we believe should be dealt with locally by local authorities.

Carl Sargeant: Diolchaf i’r Aelod am ei sylwadau, ac, wrth gwrs, edrychaf ymlaen at weithio gyda’r pwyllgor i ddwyn hyn ymlaen. O ran pwerau’ Gweinidogion Cymru i ddirymu deddfwriaeth, nid yw hyn yn beth newydd. Mae hyn wedi digwydd, ac mae’n cael ei ystyried yn y trafodaethau sy’n digwydd y tu hwnt i’r Siambr hon mewn perthynas â rhai o’r Gorchmynion sydd mewn lle ar hyn o bryd o fewn awdurdodau lleol. Yr ydym yn edrych i ddatganoli swyddogaethau i awdurdodau lleol o ran is-ddeddfau, a chroesawaf sylwadau’r Aelod ynglŷn â dwyn hyn ymlaen. Mae is-ddeddfau’n fodd effeithiol a defnyddiol o ddelio â materion lleol, ac yr ydym yn credu y dylent gael eu trin yn lleol gan awdurdodau lleol.

Mike Hedges: I also welcome this. I believe that it is important to use bye-laws to deal with local problems. As the leader of Swansea Council, I took through two bye-laws: one dealt with on-street drinking in the city centre and the other was an attempt to stop skateboarding in Castle Square. The first was successful and achieved what it was designed to achieve; the other, relating to skateboarding in Castle Square, has unfortunately not been successful. I remember the difficulties that we faced while going through the process, and I am sure that Julie James, who was the council officer responsible for this work, could outline the problems in greater detail. However, I really welcome anything that makes the system less bureaucratic and less complicated.

Mike Hedges: Croesawaf hyn hefyd. Credaf ei bod yn bwysig defnyddio is-ddeddfau i ddelio â phroblemau lleol. Fel arweinydd Cyngor Abertawe, cyflwynais ddwy is-ddeddf: un yn ymdrin ag yfed ar y stryd yng nghanol y ddinas a’r llall a oedd yn ymgais i atal sgrialu yn Sgwâr y Castell. Yr oedd y cyntaf yn llwyddiannus ac fe gyflawnodd yr hyn yr oedd wedi’i chynllunio i’w gyflawni; yn anffodus nid yw’r llall, a oedd yn ymwneud â sgrialu yn Sgwâr y Castell, wedi bod yn llwyddiannus. Cofiaf yr anawsterau a wynebwyd gennym wrth fynd drwy’r broses, ac yr wyf yn siŵr y gallai Julie James, sef swyddog y cyngor a oedd yn gyfrifol am y gwaith hwn, amlinellu’r problemau yn fwy manwl. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn wirioneddol groesawu unrhyw beth sy’n lleihau’r fiwrocratiaeth a’r cymhlethdod yn y system.

I have three questions. If it is going to be simplified, I think that that is very good. Talking about fixed penalties, will a fixed penalty tariff be in existence for use in this way? I believe that it can work, but who will implement it; will it be done by the police, or not, if it concerns skateboarding in the city centre—or will it be possible to decriminalise it so that it can be dealt with by such people as local authority traffic wardens? Also, I am in favour of the idea of reviewing out-of-date ones, because that would deal with one of the objections that people have to bringing one forward, in that they might think, ‘We’ve got it forever, and it might not be needed anymore’. Do you intend to include a review on a regular basis of those that are out of date? Do you expect people to contact you to tell you which ones are out of date, or will you take a proactive approach to it?

Mae gennyf dri chwestiwn. Os caiff ei symleiddio, credaf mai peth da iawn fyddai hynny. ’Wrth sôn am gosbau penodedig, a fydd tariff cosb benodedig mewn bodolaeth i’’w defnyddio yn y ffordd hon? Credaf y gall weithio, ond pwy fydd yn ei gweithredu; ai’r heddlu fydd yn gwneud hynny, neu beidio, os yw’n ymwneud â sgrialu yng nghanol y ddinas—neu a fydd yn bosibl ’ei gyfreithloni, er mwyn i bobl fel wardeiniaid traffig yr awdurdod lleol ymdrin ag ef? Hefyd, yr wyf o blaid y syniad o adolygu’r hen rai, oherwydd byddai hynny’n ymdrin ag un o’r gwrthwynebiadau sydd gan bobl yn erbyn cyflwyno un, o ran y gallent feddwl, ‘Bydd hyn gennym am byth, ac efallai nad oes ei angen arnom bellach’. A ydych yn bwriadu cynnwys adolygiad rheolaidd o’r rhai sydd wedi dyddio? A ydych yn disgwyl i bobl gysylltu â chi i ddweud wrthych ba rai sydd wedi dyddio, neu a fyddwch yn cymryd dull rhagweithiol iddo?

Carl Sargeant: I thank Mike Hedges for his contribution: I am quite keen to see the Welsh Labour skateboarding team in action—or should I say the anti-skateboarding team? He nonetheless raises a very important point in terms of the local issues that many Members with constituencies will face on a day-to-day basis.

Carl Sargeant: Diolchaf i Mike Hedges am ei gyfraniad: yr wyf yn eithaf awyddus i weld tîm sgrialu Llafur Cymru yn bwrw iddi—neu a ddylwn ddweud y tîm gwrth-sgrialu? Serch hynny, mae’n codi pwynt pwysig iawn o ran y materion lleol y bydd llawer o Aelodau gydag etholaethau yn eu hwynebu o ddydd i ddydd.

The issue of simplification is the key to this. Of course, there is not a huge cost saving in this programme directly related to this Bill, but there will be cost savings in time for councils and authorities that chase people who skateboard in what have been deemed inappropriate areas, where taking them through the courts is a huge problem.

Symleiddio yw’r peth allweddol yn hyn o beth. Wrth gwrs, nid oes arbediad enfawr yn y rhaglen hon yn uniongyrchol ’o ran y Bil hwn, ond bydd arbedion cost mewn amser i gynghorau ac awdurdodau sy’n ymlid pobl sy’n sgrialu mewn ardaloedd sydd wedi eu barnu’n rhai amhriodol, lle mae’n broblem enfawr i fynd â hwy drwy’r llysoedd.

With regard to the powers to issue fines, and thereby not have to take the matter to the magistrates court, this will be an option that will enhance the whole process, making it quicker and often much more effective, as giving people a direct fine usually helps them to see the light of day.

O ran y pwerau i roi dirwyon, ac felly i beidio â dod â’r mater gerbron llys yr ynadon, bydd hyn yn opsiwn a fydd yn gwella’r broses gyfan, ac yn ei gwneud yn gyflymach ac yn aml yn llawer mwy effeithiol, oherwydd bod rhoi dirwy uniongyrchol i bobl fel arfer yn eu helpu i weld y goleuni.

As for who delivers this, it will be delivered through local authorities, of course, but the function of delivering fixed penalty notices can be given, subject to the chief constable’s approval, through the police community support officers who patrol our communities. I know that you welcome the introduction of 500 more PCSOs as a Welsh Labour commitment in Wales.

O ran pwy fydd yn darparu’ hyn, caiff ei ddarparu drwy’r awdurdodau lleol, wrth gwrs, ond gellir rhoi’r swyddogaeth o ddarparu hysbysiadau cosb benodedig, yn amodol ar gymeradwyaeth y prif gwnstabl, i swyddogion cymorth cymunedol yr heddlu sy’n ’patrolio ein cymunedau. Gwn eich bod yn croesawu cyflwyno 500 yn fwy o swyddogion cymorth cymunedol fel ymrwymiad Llafur Cymru yng Nghymru.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Ar ran Plaid Cymru, croesawaf innau’r datganiad hwn. Yr oeddwn ar ddweud nad oedd dim byd yn y datganiad a fyddai wedi galluogi hyd yn oed Ken Skates i gynhyrfu mewn ymateb, ond mae’n amlwg bod Mike Hedges wedi cynhyrfu’n lân â’r datganiad. Mewn gwirionedd, mae’r datganiad yn mynd ati i gymhwyso’r sefyllfa ac edrych ar bwy fyddai orau i ddelio â’r is-ddeddfau hyn. Cymeradwyaf y Gweinidog am wneud hynny.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: On behalf of Plaid Cymru, I welcome this statement. I was about to say that there was nothing in it that would excite even Ken Skates in response, but it is clear that it has greatly excited Mike Hedges. In truth, the statement sets about introducing competencies and looks at who would be best placed to deal with these bye-laws. I applaud the Minister for that.

Yr wyf hefyd yn diolch iddo am y cyfarfod anffurfiol a gawsom gydag ef a’i swyddogion—yr oedd yn ddefnyddiol iawn o ran ein galluogi i ddeall beth yn union oedd y tu ôl i hyn.

I also thank him for the informal meeting that we had with him and his officials—it was very useful in allowing us to understand what exactly is behind this.

Yr unig gwestiwn sydd gennyf, Weinidog, yw: a oes egwyddor sylfaenol a fydd yn gwahaniaethu rhwng pa is-ddeddfau sy’n cael eu datganoli i awdurdodau lleol a pha rai a gedwir yn ganolog gan y Llywodraeth, ynteu a ydych am edrych ar bob un darn o is-ddeddfwriaeth yn ei oleuni ei hun?

The only question that I have, Minister, is this: is there a fundamental principle that will be used to differentiate between bye-laws devolved to local authorities and those retained centrally by the Government, or will you consider every bye-law on its merits?

Carl Sargeant: I thank the Member for his contribution. The important scrutiny of this process is key in ensuring that we make good laws in Wales. In terms of the listings that will be subject to this, they are included in the Bill. There are perhaps too many to mention today, but they are available; if you do not have a copy, I will ensure that a copy is published and held in the Library. Examples include section 68 of the Town Police Clauses Act 1847, which is to do with hackney carriages and includes the conduct of drivers and proprietors, and the regulation of public walks and pleasure grounds under the Public Health Act 1875. There is a variety of clauses and bye-laws, under which we are seeking to transfer powers to local authorities. Of course, there are also elements, as I mentioned earlier, which we believe should have some protection in terms of ministerial intervention around the protection of nature reserves and preservation orders and so on, should such a bye-law be introduced in that process.

Carl Sargeant: Diolch i’r Aelod am ei gyfraniad. Mae’r craffu pwysig ar y broses hon yn allweddol i sicrhau ein bod yn gwneud deddfwriaeth dda yng Nghymru. O ran y rhestriadau a fydd yn ddarostyngedig i hyn, cânt eu cynnwys yn y Bil. Efallai bod gormod ohonynt i sôn amdanynt heddiw, ond maent ar gael; os nad oes gennych gopi, byddaf yn sicrhau bod copi yn cael ei gyhoeddi a’i gadw yn y Llyfrgell. Mae enghreifftiau yn cynnwys adran 68 o Ddeddf Cyfrifoldebau Heddluoedd Trefol 1847, sydd yn ymwneud â cherbydau hacnai ac ’yn cynnwys ymddygiad gyrwyr a pherchnogion, a rheoleiddio llwybrau cyhoeddus a pharciau difyrion o dan Ddeddf Iechyd y Cyhoedd 1875. Mae amrywiaeth o gymalau ac is-ddeddfau, lle yr ydym yn ceisio trosglwyddo pwerau i awdurdodau lleol. Wrth gwrs, mae elfennau hefyd, fel y soniais yn gynharach, yr ydym yn credu a ddylai gael rhywfaint o amddiffyniad o ran ymyrraeth weinidogol o gwmpas amddiffyn gwarchodfeydd natur a gorchmynion cadw ac ati, pe byddai is-ddeddf o’r fath yn cael ei chyflwyno yn y broses honno.

5.15 p.m.

I am happy for you to have a full copy of those. If I may just add something, Deputy Presiding Officer, I missed out responding to an important point made by the previous Member on fixed penalty notices. The Bill includes a default payment of £75 in terms of a fixed penalty notice, but that is, of course, subject to change should an amendment be sought in the process of the scrutiny of the Bill.

Yr wyf yn hapus i chi gael copi llawn o’r rheini. Os gallaf ychwanegu rhywbeth, Ddirprwy Lywydd, collais gyfle i ymateb i bwynt pwysig a wnaed gan yr Aelod blaenorol ar hysbysiadau cosb benodedig. Mae’r Bil yn cynnwys taliad diofyn o £75 o ran hysbysiad cosb benodedig, ond gallai hwnnw, wrth gwrs, newid pe byddai gwelliant yn cael ei geisio yn ystod y broses o graffu ar y Bil.

Peter Black: I welcome this first piece of legislation under our new powers following the referendum. It is a good example of subsidiarity in practice. It is crucial that we carry on the devolution process and devolve powers down to local authorities as best we can. I welcome the fact that the Minister has taken this approach, because this is overdue in terms of the need to review existing bye-laws and to introduce modern bye-laws that deal with more of the modern problems that face local authorities. I was at a public meeting only the other night about parking around the Liberty Stadium. An officer raised the point that a bye-law could assist the council in regulating parking in the area. I am sure that there are other examples of that happening.

Peter Black: Croesawaf y darn cyntaf o ddeddfwriaeth o dan ein pwerau newydd yn dilyn y refferendwm. Mae’n enghraifft dda o sybsidiaredd ar waith. Mae’n hanfodol ein bod yn parhau â’r broses ddatganoli ac yn datganoli pwerau i awdurdodau lleol orau y gallwn ni. Croesawaf y ffaith bod y Gweinidog wedi cymryd yr ymagwedd hon, gan fod hyn yn hwyr o ran yr angen i adolygu is-ddeddfau presennol a chyflwyno is-ddeddfau modern sy’n delio â mwy o’r problemau modern sy’n wynebu awdurdodau lleol. Yr oeddwn mewn cyfarfod cyhoeddus y noson o’r blaen i drafod parcio o amgylch Stadiwm Liberty. Cododd un o’r swyddogion y pwynt y gallai is-ddeddf gynorthwyo’r cyngor wrth reoleiddio’r parcio yn yr ardal. Yr wyf yn siŵr bod yna enghreifftiau eraill o hynny’n digwydd.

Minister, I am not going to scrutinise this Bill in detail at this stage, because that would not be appropriate. The only issue that I want to raise with you is about the cross-border implementation and enforcement of bye-laws. Bye-laws passed in one authority can sometimes affect other authorities. There is a particular issue about what would happen where a bye-law in a Welsh authority has an impact on a neighbouring English authority. I would be grateful if you could look at that when you bring the Bill before us. 

Weinidog, nid wyf yn mynd i graffu ar y Bil hwn yn fanwl yn y cyfnod hwn, gan na fyddai hynny’n briodol. Mae’r unig fater yr wyf am ei godi gyda chi yn ymwneud â’r gweithredu trawsffiniol a gorfodi is-ddeddfau. Gall is-ddeddfau a basiwyd mewn un awdurdod weithiau effeithio ar awdurdodau eraill. Mae mater penodol ynghylch beth fyddai’n digwydd pan fydd is-ddeddf mewn awdurdod Cymreig yn cael effaith ar awdurdod Saesneg cyfagos. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe gallech edrych ar hynny pan fyddwch yn dod â’r Bil ger ein bron.

Carl Sargeant: I thank the Member for raising those issues. Differences between England and Wales or across county boundaries are nothing new for us to deal with: consider the smoking ban or Sunday opening hours for public houses. The latter was certainly of interest in Flintshire—you saw buses travelling between England and Wales at certain times of the year. Communication is key to ensure that we have an effective system for the development of bye-laws and I would be keen to understand that issue better through the Member’s contributions in committee.

Carl Sargeant: Diolch i’r Aelod am godi’r materion hynny. Mae gwahaniaethau rhwng Cymru a Lloegr neu ar draws ffiniau sirol yn ddim byd newydd i ni i ddelio â hwy: ystyriwch y gwaharddiad ar ysmygu neu oriau agor ar y Sul ar gyfer tafarndai. Roedd yr olaf yn sicr o ddiddordeb yn sir y Fflint—byddech yn gweld bysus yn teithio rhwng Cymru a Lloegr ar adegau penodol o’r flwyddyn. Mae cyfathrebu yn allweddol i sicrhau bod gennym system effeithiol ar gyfer datblygu is-ddeddfau, a byddwn yn awyddus i ddeall y mater hwnnw yn well trwy gyfraniadau’r Aelod yn y pwyllgor.

Joyce Watson: I welcome the introduction of the Local Government Byelaws (Wales) Bill. It is a good opportunity for us to demonstrate that we are willing to give more power back to the locality, where it clearly belongs. In my experience as a former county councillor, bye-laws can be a useful tool for responding to local concerns and circumstances. I pick up on the point made by Peter Black in saying that it is time that we made modern bye-laws for a modern community. I also welcome that it is not prescriptive. It gives local decision-making back to communities in most cases, and I accept the retention therein. It simplifies the process and gives local people and their representatives the first and last say on introducing local laws. That has to be commended and I am sure that everybody here can support that. However, in the interests of democratic accountability, what provision will be made for bye-laws made by private companies? I look forward to scrutinising the Bill in committee and I encourage organisations and individuals to make representations.

Joyce Watson: Yr wyf yn croesawu cyflwyno Bil Is-ddeddfau Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru). Mae’n gyfle da inni ddangos ein bod yn barod i roi mwy o bŵer yn ôl i’r ardal leol, sef y fan lle mae’n perthyn yn amlwg. Yn fy mhrofiad fel cyn-gynghorydd sir, mae is-ddeddfau yn gallu bod yn offeryn defnyddiol ar gyfer ymateb i bryderon ac amgylchiadau lleol. Rwy’n nodi’r pwynt a wnaed gan Peter Black wrth ddweud ei bod yn bryd inni wneud is-ddeddfau modern ar gyfer cymuned fodern. Croesawaf hefyd y ffaith nad yw’n rhagnodol. Mae’n rhoi prosesau gwneud penderfyniadau lleol yn ôl i gymunedau yn y rhan fwyaf o achosion, ac yr wyf yn derbyn bod hynny’n cael ei gadw. Mae’n symleiddio’r broses ac yn rhoi i bobl leol a’u cynrychiolwyr y gair cyntaf ac olaf ar gyflwyno deddfau lleol. Rhaid canmol hynny, ac yr wyf yn siŵr y gall pawb yma ei gefnogi. Fodd bynnag, er budd atebolrwydd democrataidd, pa ddarpariaeth a wneir ar gyfer is-ddeddfau a wneir gan gwmnïau preifat? Rwy’n edrych ymlaen at graffu ar y Bil yn y pwyllgor ac yr wyf yn annog sefydliadau ac unigolion i wneud sylwadau.

Carl Sargeant: The Member raises some important points. This is about devolving the processes to local government, in terms of the decision-making processes that it has. There are several procedures within this and we should not lose sight of transparency in delivering this. One of the key components of in developing a bye-law is consultation, so that local people have the chance to inform the local authority as to whether or not they support the bye-law that is being considered. Most Assembly Members will have dealt with complaints from constituents in relation to anti-social behaviour or nuisances. The power contained in section 235 of the Local Government Act 1972 is one of the powers that we will seek for local authorities in order to make bye-laws for the good rule and government and prevention of nuisances in their areas. Therefore, for example, the climbing of bridges and skateboarding in areas that are not conducive to skateboarding, which Mike Hedges mentioned, could be considered, through a consultation of the local authority with residents affected by this process.

Carl Sargeant: Mae’r Aelod yn codi rhai pwyntiau pwysig. Mae hyn yn ymwneud â datganoli prosesau i lywodraeth leol, o ran y prosesau gwneud penderfyniadau sydd ganddi. Mae nifer o weithdrefnau yn rhan o hyn, ac ni ddylem golli golwg ar dryloywder wrth ei gyflawni. Un o’r elfennau allweddol wrth ddatblygu is-ddeddf yw ymgynghori, fel bod pobl leol yn cael y cyfle i hysbysu’r awdurdod lleol am eu cefnogaeth, neu fel arall, i’r is-ddeddf sy’n cael ei hystyried. Bydd y rhan fwyaf o Aelodau’r Cynulliad wedi delio â chwynion gan etholwyr mewn perthynas ag ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol neu niwsans. Mae’r pŵer yn adran 235 o Ddeddf Llywodraeth Leol 1972 yn un o’r pwerau y byddwn yn eu ceisio ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol er mwyn gwneud is-ddeddfau ar gyfer rheolaeth dda a llywodraethu ac er mwyn atal niwsans yn eu hardaloedd. Felly, er enghraifft, gellid ystyried dringo pontydd a sglefrfyrddio mewn ardaloedd nad ydynt yn ffafriol i sglefrfyrddio, fel y crybwyllwyd gan Mike Hedges, drwy ymgynghoriad rhwng yr awdurdod lleol a thrigolion yr effeithir arnynt gan y broses hon.

Antoinette Sandbach: Minister, I want to raise three matters of concern. First, while I understand that it may be efficient and effective to impose fines, for many people £75 can be the amount of money that they have to live on and pay their bills out of in a week. Therefore, by taking away the scrutiny of a magistrates’ court you are, in effect, depriving them of the ability to challenge that process. I wonder, therefore, whether there will be an appeals process. Magistrates’ courts provide a way in which people can challenge fines that have been issued wrongly—one only has to think of the amount of challenges to parking fines, for which there is an appeals procedure.

Antoinette Sandbach: Weinidog, yr wyf am godi tri mater o bryder. Yn gyntaf, er fy mod yn deall y gall fod yn effeithlon ac yn effeithiol i osod dirwyon, i lawer o bobl, gall £75 fod yr hyn sydd ganddynt i fyw arno ac i dalu eu biliau mewn wythnos. Felly, trwy dynnu yn ôl archwiliad llys yr ynadon rydych, mewn gwirionedd, yn eu hamddifadu o’r gallu i herio’r broses honno. Tybed, felly, a fydd proses apelio. Mae llysoedd ynadon yn cynnig ffordd i bobl herio dirwyon sydd wedi cael eu cyhoeddi ar gam—rhaid inni ddim ond meddwl am nifer yr heriau i ddirwyon parcio, lle mae gweithdrefn apelio.

I am glad to see that there will be scrutiny by this Assembly of some of the measures, as I would be concerned if that safeguard was not in place. Bearing in mind the announcement made today by the Minister for Environment and Sustainable Development about the single environment body, can you clarify why powers have been ascribed to the Countryside Council for Wales? The Minister for environment seemed to indicate in his statement that implementation is due on 1 April, and, therefore, this Bill is likely to change. Therefore, are you proposing that the new single environment body will have the power to make bye-laws and fine people? If so, there has been no consultation on that. As I understood matters from the Minister for environment’s statement today, there is supposed to be public consultation on the powers and role of that single environment body, so that is a concern.

Yr wyf yn falch o weld y bydd craffu gan y Cynulliad ar rai o’r mesurau, oherwydd byddwn yn bryderus pe na fyddai’r amddiffyniad hwnnw yn ei le. Gan gadw mewn cof y cyhoeddiad a wnaed heddiw gan y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd a Datblygu Cynaliadwy am y corff amgylcheddol sengl, a allwch chi egluro pam y pennwyd pwerau i Gyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru? Ymddengys bod y Gweinidog dros yr amgylchedd yn nodi yn ei ddatganiad y bwriedir gweithredu ar 1 Ebrill, ac, felly, mae’r Bil hwn yn debygol o newid. Felly, a ydych chi’n cynnig bof y corff amgylcheddol sengl newydd yn cael y pŵer i wneud is-ddeddfau a dirwyo pobl? Os felly, ni fu unrhyw ymgynghori ar hynny. Yr wyf ar ddeall gan ddatganiad Gweinidog yr amgylchedd heddiw y dylid cynnal ymgynghoriad cyhoeddus ar bwerau a rôl y corff amgylcheddol sengl, felly mae hynny’n peri pryder.

Carl Sargeant: I thank the Member for her contribution. We do not pick a Bill out of thin air; this has been developed through a consultation process—countless numbers of people were asked to respond. For the area that the Member represents, we had responses from the local authorities in Wrexham, Flintshire, Denbighshire and Conwy, which were all broadly in support of this Bill. Therefore, I hope that the Member could respond in a similar way through the process of scrutiny. It is right and proper that this Assembly should scrutinise this Bill as well as Measures have been scrutinised in the past. 

Carl Sargeant: Diolch i’r Aelod am ei chyfraniad. Nid yw Bil yn ymddangos yn anesboniadwy o ddim; datblygwyd hyn drwy broses ymgynghori—gofynnwyd i nifer ddi-rif  o bobl i ymateb. Ar gyfer yr ardal y mae’r Aelod yn ei chynrychioli, cawsom ymatebion gan yr awdurdodau lleol yn Wrecsam, sir y Fflint, sir Ddinbych a Chonwy, a oedd i gyd yn fras yn cefnogi’r Bil hwn. Felly, yr wyf yn gobeithio y gall yr Aelod ymateb mewn ffordd debyg drwy’r broses graffu. Mae’n iawn ac yn briodol bod y Cynulliad hwn yn craffu ar y Bil hwn cystal ag y mae wedi craffu ar fesurau yn y gorffennol.

In terms of the question regarding the single authority, most of the bye-laws will be made by local authorities and community councils. There are two other elements that are currently in the Bill, and I would not want to pre-empt, of course, the consultation process that the Minister for environment is undertaking on a single agency. The ones that are currently in place relate to the national park authorities, and two of the bye-laws remain subject to confirmation by Welsh Ministers. So, despite potential changes, should that be the outcome of the Minister’s consultation process, the only ones related to national park authorities within that grouping are to do with the protection of nature reserves and the facilities in or near national parks, lakes or national park control of boats and so on. I do not see that as a problem currently, but I would welcome the Member, through the scrutiny process, seeking further clarification on the processes and on whether the effects of the new potential merger, depending on the consultation process, might have an effect on the outcome of the Bill as currently written. However, that is something that I will consider through the process.

O ran y cwestiwn ynghylch yr un awdurdod, gwneir y rhan fwyaf o is-ddeddfau gan awdurdodau lleol a chynghorau cymuned. Mae dwy elfen arall ar hyn o bryd yn y Bil, ac ni fyddwn eisiau achub y blaen, wrth gwrs, ar y broses ymgynghori y mae’r Gweinidog dros yr amgylchedd yn ei chynnal ar un asiantaeth. Mae’r rhai sydd ar waith ar hyn o bryd yn berthnasol i awdurdodau’r parciau cenedlaethol, ac mae dau o’r is-ddeddfau yn parhau’n amodol ar gadarnhad gan Weinidogion Cymru. Felly, er gwaethaf newidiadau posibl, os mai hynny fydd canlyniad proses ymgynghori’r Gweinidog, mae’r unig rai sy’n gysylltiedig ag awdurdodau’r parciau cenedlaethol yn y grŵp hwnnw yn ymwneud ag amddiffyn gwarchodfeydd natur a’r cyfleusterau sydd o fewn neu ger parciau cenedlaethol, llynnoedd neu gychod a reolir gan barciau cenedlaethol ac ati. Nid wyf yn gweld hynny fel problem ar hyn o bryd, ond byddwn yn croesawu’r Aelod, drwy’r broses graffu, i geisio eglurhad pellach ar y prosesau ac ar ba un a allai effeithiau’r uno newydd posibl, yn dibynnu ar y broses ymgynghori, gael effaith ar ganlyniad y Bil fel y mae ar hyn o bryd. Fodd bynnag, mae hynny’n rhywbeth y byddaf yn ei ystyried drwy’r broses.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: I have selected amendments 1, 2 and 3 in the name of William Graham. Amendment 2 has been withdrawn.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliannau 1, 2 a 3 yn enw William Graha. Tynnwyd gwelliant 2 yn ôl.

Cynnig NDM4865 Jane Hutt

Motion NDM4865 Jane Hutt

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yn nodi bod cael y fargen orau i Gymru yn flaenoriaeth bwysig i Lywodraeth Cymru wrth ddiwygio’r PAC.

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales notes that securing the best deal for Wales from CAP Reform is a key priority for the Welsh Government.

The Deputy Minister for Agriculture, Food, Fisheries and European Programmes (Alun Davies): I move the motion.

Y Dirprwy Weinidog Amaethyddiaeth, Bwyd, Pysgodfeydd a Rhaglenni Ewropeaidd (Alun Davies): Cynigiaf y cynnig.

Today’s debate provides an opportunity for the Welsh Government to set out its initial views on some of the key issues for Wales arising from proposals for the reform of the common agricultural policy from 2014. Most importantly, it is an opportunity for the Government to listen to Members. I will say at the outset of this debate that the Government will support both the Conservative amendments to the motion, amendments 1 and 3, and I thank William Graham for agreeing to withdraw amendment 2.

Mae dadl heddiw yn rhoi cyfle i Lywodraeth Cymru nodi ei barn gychwynnol ar rai o’r materion allweddol i Gymru sy’n deillio o gynigion ar gyfer diwygio’r polisi amaethyddol cyffredin o 2014. Yn bwysicaf oll, mae’n gyfle i’r Llywodraeth wrando ar Aelodau. Yr wyf am ddweud ar ddechrau’r ddadl hon y bydd y Llywodraeth yn cefnogi dau welliant y Ceidwadwyr i’r cynnig, gwelliannau 1 a 3, ac yr wyf yn diolch i William Graham am gytuno i dynnu gwelliant 2 yn ôl.

Members will be aware that the European Commission published draft legislation for further reform of CAP on 12 October. The reform package relates to both pillars of CAP, that is, both direct payments to farmers under pillar 1 and the rural development aspects under pillar 2. Direct payments to farmers are worth some £260 million a year to Wales and are fully funded by the Commission. Under the current Wales rural development plan, some £100 million is distributed annually, the majority of which is Welsh Government funding, primarily to farming families. Taken together, these sums represent a significant level of funding for our rural communities.

Bydd Aelodau’n ymwybodol bod y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd wedi cyhoeddi deddfwriaeth ddrafft ar gyfer diwygio’r PAC ymhellach ar 12 Hydref. Mae’r pecyn diwygio yn ymwneud â dau biler y PAC, hynny yw, y ddau dâl uniongyrchol i ffermwyr o dan golofn 1 a’r agweddau datblygu gwledig o dan golofn 2. Mae taliadau uniongyrchol i ffermwyr yn werth rhyw £260 miliwn y flwyddyn i Gymru ac yn cael eu hariannu’n llawn gan y Comisiwn. O dan gynllun datblygu gwledig presennol Cymru, mae tua £100 miliwn yn cael ei ddosbarthu bob blwyddyn, ac mae’r rhan fwyaf ohono’n arian gan Lywodraeth Cymru, yn bennaf i deuluoedd ffermio. Gyda’i gilydd, mae’r symiau hyn yn lefel sylweddol o arian ar gyfer ein cymunedau gwledig.

I am also pleased to record that the Welsh Government will release 88 per cent of the single payment scheme from 1 December. This represents some £214 million, which will be released on the first available date. By Christmas, 90 per cent will have been released. That is a tremendous achievement by my officials, and I thank them for that. It maintains the reputation rightly gained by the Welsh Government in securing a high level of release of the earliest possible opportunity allowed for under EU rules.

Yr wyf hefyd yn falch o gofnodi y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn rhyddhau 88 y cant o’r cynllun taliad sengl o 1 Rhagfyr. Mae hyn yn golygu y bydd tua £214 miliwn yn cael ei ryddhau ar y dyddiad cyntaf posibl. Erbyn y Nadolig, bydd 90 y cant wedi ei ryddhau. Mae hynny’n gamp aruthrol gan fy swyddogion, a diolchaf iddynt am hynny. Mae’n cynnal yr enw da haeddiannol a enillwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru o ran sicrhau lefel uchel o ryddhau cyn gynted ag sy’n bosibl yn ôl yr hyn a ganiateir dan reolau’r UE.

It is clear to the Welsh Government, therefore, that it is vital that we are able to achieve an outcome to the CAP reform process that meets the needs of Wales, the needs of farming and the needs of our rural communities. As we discuss these proposals today, it is extremely important that we bear in mind that this is just the start of a process. It is likely that final decisions on the direction and detail for the CAP will not be reached until the early months of 2013. There is a long and complex negotiation process ahead of us.

Mae’n amlwg i Lywodraeth Cymru, felly, ei bod yn hanfodol ein bod yn gallu sicrhau canlyniad i’r broses o ddiwygio’r PAC sy’n diwallu anghenion Cymru, anghenion ffermio ac anghenion ein cymunedau gwledig. Wrth inni drafod y cynigion hyn heddiw, mae’n hynod bwysig ein bod yn cadw mewn cof mai dim ond dechrau proses yw hyn. Mae’n debygol na fydd penderfyniadau terfynol ar y cyfeiriad a’r manylion ar gyfer y PAC yn cael eu cyrraedd tan fisoedd cynnar 2013. Mae proses negodi hir a chymhleth o’n blaenau.

I want to make it absolutely clear that I will not make any definitive statements on the specifics of proposals, nor take any inflexible positions on how they will affect Wales. That is for the simple reason that what we are seeing today is not necessarily the position that we will reach at the endgame for final decisions.

Rwyf am ei wneud yn gwbl glir na fyddaf yn gwneud unrhyw ddatganiadau pendant ar fanylion y cynigion, na chymryd unrhyw safbwyntiau anhyblyg ar sut y byddant yn effeithio ar Gymru. Mae hynny am y rheswm syml nad yw’r hyn yr ydym yn ei weld heddiw o reidrwydd yn sefyllfa y byddwn yn ei chyrraedd yn y pen draw o ran y penderfyniadau terfynol.

I want to listen to what Members have to say and, subsequent to this afternoon’s debate, to listen to what people across the whole of Wales have to say. It is important that this conversation is a real conversation that starts and is led by Government, but is not simply dominated by Government, and that the Government does not start this process by setting out where it wants the process to end.

Yr wyf am wrando ar yr hyn sydd gan Aelodau i’w ddweud ac, yn dilyn y ddadl y prynhawn yma, ar yr hyn sydd gan bobl ar draws Cymru gyfan i’w ddweud. Mae’n bwysig bod y sgwrs hon yn sgwrs go iawn sy’n dechrau ac yn cael ei harwain gan y Llywodraeth, ond hefyd yn sgwrs nad yw’n cael ei dominyddu gan y Llywodraeth, ac nad yw’r Llywodraeth yn cychwyn y broses hon trwy nodi lle mae’n dymuno i’r broses orffen.

Furthermore, understanding the detail under the CAP is absolutely vital. We already have a series of draft regulations from the Commission and bulky supporting analysis. Critically, the Commission has yet to release the drafts of the important implementing regulations. I now understand that they will be released in late spring 2012. It is also the case that the future budget for the European union between 2014 and 2020, the multi-annual financial framework, will have a clear influence on CAP reform.

Ar ben hynny, mae deall y manylion o dan y PAC yn gwbl hanfodol. Mae gennym eisoes gyfres o reoliadau drafft gan y Comisiwn a dadansoddiad ategol swmpus. Yn allweddol, nid yw’r Comisiwn wedi rhyddhau drafftiau o’r rheoliadau gweithredu pwysig eto. Deallaf yn awr y byddant yn cael eu rhyddhau ddiwedd gwanwyn 2012. Mae hefyd yn wir y bydd y gyllideb yn y dyfodol ar gyfer yr undeb Ewropeaidd rhwng 2014 a 2020, y fframwaith ariannol amlflwydd, yn cael dylanwad clir ar ddiwygio’r PAC.

It is a matter of public record that the Welsh Government does not share the UK Government’s view about the need for an overall reduction and a significant cut in CAP payments. I would not want that to detract from the main purposes of today’s debate, but it is important that it is recognised at the outset.

Mae’n fater o gofnod cyhoeddus nad yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn cytuno â barn Llywodraeth y DU am yr angen am ostyngiad cyffredinol a thoriad sylweddol yn y taliadau PAC. Ni fyddwn am i hynny amharu ar brif ddibenion y ddadl heddiw, ond mae’n bwysig ei bod yn cael ei chydnabod ar y cychwyn.

For the Welsh Government, ensuring that the Welsh voice is heard is key if we are to influence the outcome of the future direction of the CAP. I am committed to ensuring that that happens. I attended the EU’s agriculture council meetings in September, October and November and I will attend one again next month in December, all as part of the UK ministerial negotiating team. I can assure Members that the Welsh Government’s initial positions and perspectives on CAP reform are well understood. As part of the UK team, we met Commissioner Cioloş earlier this month. I led the discussion on the transitional arrangements and the greening aspects of the direct payments under pillar 1.

I Lywodraeth Cymru, mae sicrhau bod llais Cymru yn cael ei glywed yn allweddol os ydym am ddylanwadu ar y canlyniad o ran cyfeiriad y PAC yn y dyfodol. Rwyf wedi ymrwymo i sicrhau bod hynny’n digwydd. Mynychais gyfarfodydd cyngor amaethyddol yr UE ym mis Medi, Hydref a Thachwedd a byddaf yn mynychu un eto fis nesaf, ym mis Rhagfyr, i gyd fel rhan o dîm negodi gweinidogol y DU. Gallaf sicrhau Aelodau fod safbwyntiau a phersbectifau cychwynnol Llywodraeth Cymru ar ddiwygio’r PAC yn glir i bawb. Fel rhan o dîm y DU, fe wnaethom ni gwrdd â’r Comisiynydd Cioloş yn gynharach y mis hwn. Fe wnes i arwain y drafodaeth ar y trefniadau pontio ac agweddau gwyrdd y taliadau uniongyrchol o dan golofn 1.

5.30 p.m.

I have also met with Welsh MEPs and will meet them again next month in Strasbourg, where I will also have discussions with some of the key players in the European Parliament. I will remind players that the European Parliament has key influence in shaping the final CAP packages under the co-decision procedure, provided for by the Lisbon treaty. I fully intend keeping up this level of e-engagement to ensure that we get the best deal for Wales. To get the maximum benefit, we need the voice of Wales to be clear and cohesive. As well as at the UK and EU levels, I will continue to ensure that key stakeholders across Wales—farming and other countryside interests—have every opportunity to help inform the Welsh Government’s approach as the CAP debate unfolds over the next year or so. I want to lead, stimulate and inform the debate.

Yr wyf hefyd wedi cwrdd ag ASEau Cymru a byddaf yn eu cyfarfod eto fis nesaf yn Strasbwrg, lle y byddaf hefyd yn cael trafodaethau gyda rhai o’r carfanau allweddol yn Senedd Ewrop. Byddaf yn atgoffa’r carfanau bod gan Senedd Ewrop ddylanwad allweddol o ran llunio’r pecynnau PAC terfynol o dan y weithdrefn gydbenderfynu, a ddarperir gan gytuniad Lisbon. Llwyr fwriadaf gynnal y lefel hon o e-ymgysylltu er mwyn sicrhau y cawn y fargen orau i Gymru. I gael y budd mwyaf, mae angen i lais Cymru fod yn glir ac yn gydlynol. Yn ogystal ag ar lefel y DU a’r UE, byddaf yn parhau i sicrhau bod rhanddeiliaid allweddol ar draws Cymru—y rhai sy’n ymwneud â ffermio a chefn gwlad—yn cael pob cyfle i helpu i lywio dull gweithredu Llywodraeth Cymru wrth i’r ddadl ar y PAC ddatblygu dros y flwyddyn nesaf. Yr wyf am arwain, ysgogi a llywio’r ddadl.

As I have already outlined, we will be leading a conversation on CAP reform. I want to create an opportunity for people in Wales to have a debate on where we go from here and I will be issuing a short consultation paper on the CAP in December, which I hope will inform and stimulate the debate. It will pose a series of questions, designed to draw people’s thoughts on how we can make a real difference to the land-based industries and rural communities. I will also be asking people who are not directly involved in agriculture, but who have a thorough knowledge of farming, the environment and food, to set out their thoughts on how Wales should be taking the process forward and what Wales will be seeking from the CAP and for what purposes and outcomes. We will publish further documents in the new year on these matters. Thirdly, I will ask the farmers unions to consider a range of actions—not confined to the common agricultural policy—that will support progress towards achieving a profitable and prosperous industry. I have already had initial meetings with the unions about this and, if they accept the task, I will ask them to complete the work before the next Royal Welsh Show in July. Finally, we will be hosting a farming seminar where the key interests can have serious joint discussions about both pillars of CAP reform.

Fel yr amlinellais eisoes, byddwn yn arwain sgwrs ar ddiwygio’r PAC. Mae arnaf eisiau creu cyfle i bobl yng Nghymru gael dadl ynghylch ble yr awn o’r fan hon a byddaf yn cyhoeddi papur ymgynghori byr ar y PAC ym mis Rhagfyr, a gobeithiaf y bydd yn llywio ac yn ysgogi’r ddadl. Bydd yn codi cyfres o gwestiynau, a ddyluniwyd i ddenu barn pobl ar sut y gallwn wneud gwahaniaeth go iawn i ddiwydiannau’r tir a chymunedau gwledig. Byddaf hefyd yn gofyn i bobl nad ydynt yn gysylltiedig yn uniongyrchol ag amaethyddiaeth, ond sydd â gwybodaeth drylwyr am ffermio, yr amgylchedd a bwyd, i fynegi eu meddyliau ar sut y dylai Cymru gymryd y broses ymlaen a’r hyn y bydd Cymru’n ei geisio gan y PAC ac at ba ddibenion a chanlyniadau. Byddwn yn cyhoeddi rhagor o ddogfennau yn y flwyddyn newydd ar y materion hyn. Yn drydydd, fe wnaf ofyn i undebau’r ffermwyr ystyried amrywiaeth o gamau—rhai nad ydynt ynghlwm â’r polisi amaethyddol cyffredin yn unig—a fydd yn cefnogi cynnydd tuag at sicrhau diwydiant proffidiol a ffyniannus. Yr wyf eisoes wedi cael cyfarfodydd cychwynnol gyda’r undebau ynglŷn â hyn ac, os ydynt yn derbyn y dasg, byddaf yn gofyn iddynt gwblhau’r gwaith cyn y Sioe Frenhinol Cymru nesaf ym mis Gorffennaf. Yn olaf, byddwn yn cynnal seminar ffermio lle y gall y carfanau allweddol gael trafodaethau ar y cyd difrifol ar ddwy golofn diwygio’r PAC.

In conclusion, this process must deliver for Wales. It is a priority for the Welsh Government. I will continue to keep Members fully informed as the reform process progresses. I look forward to hearing the views of Members during this afternoon’s debate and to hearing the views of people across Wales over the coming weeks and months.

I gloi, rhaid i’r broses hon gyflawni dros Gymru. Mae’n flaenoriaeth i Lywodraeth Cymru. Byddaf yn parhau i hysbysu’r Aelodau’n llawn wrth i’r broses ddiwygio fynd rhagddi. Edrychaf ymlaen at glywed barn yr Aelodau yn ystod y ddadl y prynhawn yma ac at glywed barn pobl ledled Cymru dros yr wythnosau a’r misoedd nesaf.

Gwelliant 1 William Graham

Amendment 1 William Graham

Rhoi pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Insert new point at end of motion:

Yn cydnabod ei bod yn hanfodol diogelu dyfodol ffermydd teulu yng Nghymru yn ystod trafodaethau am ddiwygio’r PAC.

Recognises that it is vital to secure the future of Welsh family farms during CAP reform negotiations.

Gwelliant 3 William Graham

Amendment 3 William Graham

Rhoi pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Insert new point at end of motion:

Yn nodi’r effaith anghymesur a gaiff diwygio’r PAC ar systemau fferm gwahanol ac yn cydnabod bod angen trefniadau trosiannol priodol.

Notes the disproportionate impact CAP Reform will have on different farm systems and recognises the need for appropriate transitional arrangements.

Antoinette Sandbach: I move amendments 1 and 3 in the name of William Graham.

Antoinette Sandbach: Cynigiaf welliannau 1 a 3 yn enw William Graham.

I welcome the debate. I also welcome and am sure that the 88 per cent of farmers who will receive their single farm payment in December will be happy that that will come at the appropriate time. I urge you not to forget the 12 per cent who will not get it in time. I know, particularly in my area, in Conwy last year, there were particular problems that proved hard to resolve. In fact, they did not get paid until June, so I would be delighted if those problems are not experienced again.

Croesawaf y ddadl. Yr wyf hefyd yn croesawu ac yn siŵr y bydd yr 88 y cant o ffermwyr a fydd yn derbyn eu taliadau sengl ym mis Rhagfyr yn hapus y daw hynny ar yr adeg briodol. Yr wyf yn eich annog i beidio ag anghofio’r 12 y cant na fydd yn ei gael mewn pryd. Gwn, yn enwedig yn fy ardal i, yng Nghonwy y llynedd, fod problemau penodol a oedd yn anodd eu datrys. Mewn gwirionedd, ni chawsant eu talu tan Fehefin, felly buaswn i’n falch dros ben pe na bai’r problemau hynny’n codi unwaith eto.

It is vital that we should get our negotiations on the CAP right. While I always like the way in which you mistake the UK Government’s position, you will be aware that Jim Paice said recently that there are some stories about that we want to see the end of direct payments, as if by tomorrow. That is complete nonsense and an absurd proposition. Farming could not survive without direct payments, but we need to be more ambitious in the future, and I hope that when we publish our proposals, we will be suggesting a long transition from the current CAP system.

Mae’n hanfodol ein bod yn sicrhau bod y trafodaethau’n iawn ar y polisi amaethyddol cyffredin. Er fy mod bob amser yn hoffi’r ffordd yr ydych yn camgymryd safbwynt Llywodraeth y DU, byddwch yn ymwybodol bod Jim Paice wedi dweud yn ddiweddar bod rhai storïau ein bod arnom eisiau gweld diwedd ar y taliadau uniongyrchol, a hynny erbyn yfory. Mae hynny’n nonsens llwyr ac yn osodiad hurt. Ni allai ffermio oroesi heb daliadau uniongyrchol, ond mae angen inni fod yn fwy uchelgeisiol yn y dyfodol, a phan fyddwn yn cyhoeddi ein cynigion, gobeithiaf y byddwn yn awgrymu cyfnod pontio hir o’r system PAC presennol.

I am delighted that you will be hearing a variety of views. The CAP task and finish group, which is being headed up by Vaughan Gething, has heard a variety of views that have been raised with us. There are concerns about Glastir and how the current proposals are going to affect Glastir, particularly the greening in pillar 1. Amendment 2 was withdrawn because it did not add to the motion as it currently stands. You will be aware that there are real concerns about greening, in particular, how set aside will operate in the 7 per cent ecological focus areas. There is concern about that and, furthermore, there are real concerns about the permanent pasture provisions. Minister, you will be aware that there are many farmers in Wales—85 per cent of Wales is designated as permanent pasture—and the way that that is addressed in the regulations is of great concern to farmers in Wales.

Yr wyf wrth fy modd y byddwch yn clywed amrywiaeth o safbwyntiau. Mae’r grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen ar y PAC, o dan arweiniad Vaughan Gething, wedi clywed amryw o safbwyntiau a godwyd gyda ni. Ceir pryderon ynghylch Glastir a sut y mae’r cynigion presennol yn mynd i effeithio ar Glastir, yn enwedig y glasu yng ngholofn 1. Tynnwyd gwelliant 2 yn ôl oherwydd nad oedd yn ychwanegu at y cynnig fel y saif ar hyn o bryd. Byddwch yn ymwybodol bod pryderon gwirioneddol ynghylch glasu, yn benodol, sut y bydd neilltuo tir yn gweithredu yn y 7 y cant o ardaloedd ffocws ecolegol. Mae pryder ynghylch hynny ac, ar ben hynny, ceir pryderon gwirioneddol am y darpariaethau ar gyfer tir pori parhaol. Weinidog, byddwch yn ymwybodol bod llawer o ffermwyr yng Nghymru—mae 85 y cant o Gymru wedi’i ddynodi yn dir pori parhaol—ac y mae’r ffordd y tynnir sylw at hynny yn y rheoliadau yn peri pryder mawr i ffermwyr yng Nghymru.

Vital in informing your views, and also in enabling the unions and all farmers across Wales to understand the implications of these proposals, is the modelling that is undertaken by your Government. I am aware that there has been some modelling that indicates that there may be adverse consequences for the intensive beef and dairy sector, but it is vital that more modelling is carried out and that that information is put into the public domain as quickly as possible. We need to make informed decisions and our farmers can enter into the kind of dialogue that you are describing only if they have real, factually based information on which they can make their decisions and their representations.

Mae’r modelu a wneir gan eich Llywodraeth yn hanfodol i lywio’ch barn, a hefyd i alluogi undebau a ffermwyr ledled Cymru i ddeall goblygiadau’r cynigion hyn. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol y bu peth modelu sy’n dangos y gallai fod canlyniadau andwyol ar gyfer y sector llaeth a chig eidion dwys, ond y mae’n hanfodol bod mwy o fodelu’n digwydd a bod yr wybodaeth honno’n cael ei rhoi i’r cyhoedd cyn gynted â phosibl. Mae arnom angen gwneud penderfyniadau gwybodus a gall ein ffermwyr gyfrannu i’r math o ddeialog yr ydych yn ei ddisgrifio dim ond os oes ganddynt wybodaeth wirioneddol sy’n seiliedig ar ffeithiau y gallant wneud eu penderfyniadau a’u sylwadau arnynt.

In respect of the aim of simplification in the regulations, I would hope that you would welcome that and support it. Farmers have consistently said over the years that they struggle with a burden of red tape. For example, in Wales we sometimes gold-plate regulation; animal movements, for example, can be reported within seven days in Europe, but in Wales, we are required to report within three. The aims of some of the proposals as they have emerged are to be welcomed if they result in real change. There are concerns about the greening of pillar 1, and how that is going to operate in relation to pillar 2, Glastir and the agri-environment schemes. I know that you will have had representations, as we have on the CAP task and finish group, in relation to the concerns of farmers unions as to how that will operate in practice. As you have indicated in your statement, there are real concerns; the devil is in the detail and the implementing regulations have not yet been published. We are aware that this is an ongoing process, particularly in terms of the co-decision making that will be taking place in the European Parliament.

O ran y nod o symleiddio yn y rheoliadau, buaswn yn gobeithio y buasech yn croesawu hynny a’i gefnogi. Mae ffermwyr wedi dweud yn gyson dros y blynyddoedd eu bod yn cael trafferth gyda baich biwrocratiaeth. Er enghraifft, yng Nghymru, yr ydym weithiau’n rhoi gormod o glod i reoliadau; er enghraifft, gellir adrodd am symudiadau anifeiliaid o fewn saith diwrnod yn Ewrop, ond yng Nghymru, mae gofyn inni adrodd o fewn tri diwrnod. Mae nodau rhai o’r cynigion wrth iddynt ddod i’r amlwg i’w croesawu os ydynt yn arwain at newid gwirioneddol. Ceir pryderon am yr elfen lasu yng ngholofn 1, a sut y bydd hynny’n gweithredu o ran colofn 2, Glastir a’r cynlluniau amaeth-amgylcheddol. Gwn y byddwch wedi derbyn sylwadau, fel yr ydym ni ar y grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen ar y PAC, mewn perthynas â phryderon undebau ffermwyr ynglŷn â sut y bydd hynny’n gweithredu’n ymarferol. Fel y nodwyd gennych yn eich datganiad, ceir pryderon gwirioneddol; yn y manylion y mae’r drwg ac ni chyhoeddwyd y rheoliadau gweithredu eto. Yr ydym yn ymwybodol bod hyn yn broses barhaus, yn arbennig o ran y penderfyniadau ar y cyd a fydd yn digwydd yn Senedd Ewrop.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. Please conclude now.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Gorffennwch yn awr, os gwelwch yn dda.

Antoinette Sandbach: I welcome the fact that you will not be taking an inflexible stance on any matters.

Antoinette Sandbach: Croesawaf y ffaith na fyddwch yn cymryd safiad anhyblyg ar unrhyw faterion.

Llyr Huws Gruffydd: Diolch i’r Llywodraeth am y cyfle i gychwyn y drafodaeth hon ar lefel genedlaethol, o safbwynt y Llywodraeth. Croesawaf yn fawr y datganiad y bydd ymgynghoriad yn dechrau o ddifrif ym mis Rhagfyr. Fel rhywun sy’n aelod o’r grŵp gorchwyl sy’n edrych ar CAP o dan y Pwyllgor Amgylchedd a Chynaliadwyedd, byddaf yn edrych i gyfrannu rhai safbwyntiau yn ymarferol iawn drwy’r sianeli ffurfiol hynny.

Llyr Huws Gruffydd: I thank the Government for the opportunity to start this debate at a national level, from the point of view of the Government. I very much welcome the statement that a consultation will commence in earnest in December. As a member of the task and finish group looking at CAP under the Environment and Sustainability Committee, I will look to contribute points of view from a practical perspective through those formal channels.

Yr ydym yn cefnogi hefyd pob ymdrech i sefydlu ac i sicrhau’r ddêl orau i Gymru o’r polisi amaethyddol cyffredin. Mae’n allweddol, fel mae’r Dirprwy Weinidog wedi dweud, bod llais Cymru yn cael ei glywed, a bod barn Cymru yn cael ei hadlewyrchu yn y safbwyntiau a fydd yn cael eu cyflwyno gan Weinidogion San Steffan. Mae’n bwysig eu bod yn barod i gydnabod bod safbwyntiau gwahanol o fewn y Deyrnas Unedig, ond mae’n bwysig hefyd, wrth siarad ar ein rhan, bod y safbwyntiau hynny yn cael eu cynrychioli yn ystyrlon. Yr wyf yn siŵr bydd y Dirprwy Weinidog yn ymwybodol, fel y mae wedi dweud, o bwysigrwydd cydweithio gyda’r gwledydd datganoledig eraill o fewn y Deyrnas Unedig, ond hefyd gwledydd a rhanbarthau eraill o fewn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd a gyda chyd-benderfyniad yn digwydd, wrth gwrs, yn amlwg mae rôl allweddol i’n Haelodau Seneddol Ewropeaidd. Felly, bydd adeiladu clymbleidiau o’r fath yn gwbl allweddol wrth i’r trafodaethau fynd yn eu blaen. Yr ydym yn hapus iawn i gefnogi’r gwelliannau, yn enwedig y cyfeiriad at fudd ffermydd teuluol, gan danlinellu, wrth gwrs, pwysigrwydd taliadau uniongyrchol i 80 y cant o’r rheiny i fod yn hyfyw fel busnesau.

We also support all efforts to ensure the best possible deal for Wales from the common agricultural policy. It is crucial, as the Deputy Minister has said, that the voice of Wales is heard and that the views of Wales are reflected in the stance presented by Westminster Ministers. It is important that they are willing to accept that there are differing views within the United Kingdom, but it is also important that, in speaking on our behalf, those views are given due consideration. I am sure that the Deputy Minister will be aware, as he has stated, of the importance of collaborating with the other devolved nations within the United Kingdom, but also other nations and regions within the European Union and with co-decision happening, of course, there is clearly a crucial role for our Members of the European Parliament too. Therefore, building coalitions of that sort will be crucial as the negotiations progress. We are very happy to support the amendments, particularly the reference to benefits for family farms, which of course underlines the importance of direct payments to 80 per cent of them, if they are to be viable as businesses.

Wrth edrych ar y cynigion fel y maent yn sefyll, mae rhai yn cynnig cyfleoedd i Gymru, mae eraill yn cynnig heriau difrifol a all fod â goblygiadau niweidiol iawn. Mae’n anodd gwneud cyfiawnder â’r holl bwyntiau sydd angen eu rhestru o fewn ychydig funudau. Byddwn yn cefnogi’r nod o sicrhau bod ffermwyr yn amaethu mewn modd cynaliadwy sy’n cynnig rheolaeth ofalus o adnoddau naturiol ac yn helpu lleihau’r ôl-troed carbon.

In looking at the proposals as they currently stand, some offer opportunities for Wales and others provide serious challenges that could have very detrimental impacts. It is difficult to do justice to all the points that need to be listed in just a few minutes. We will be supporting the aim of ensuring that farmers farm in a sustainable way that provides careful management of natural resources and helps to reduce the carbon footprint.

Mae’r mesurau gwyrddio wedi bod yn bwnc trafod yn barod. Yr ydym am weld y mesurau hynny’n aros o fewn piler 2, nid o fewn piler 1. Mae consyrn arbennig—ac yr ydym eisoes wedi clywed rhai ohonynt—am rai o’r mesurau penodol sy’n cael eu rhestri. Byddem yn dadlau efallai bod cwestiwn am werth amgylcheddol gwirioneddol rhai o’r mesurau hynny. Wrth edrych ar dyfu cnydau, er enghraifft, bydd yn lleihau’r nifer o gnydau a fydd yn cael eu tyfu yng Nghymru, er bod bwriad gwahanol mewn rhannau eraill o Ewrop. Bydd hynny yn lleihau amrywiaeth cynefinoedd ac felly’n cael effaith y byddem yn dadlau nad yw’n effaith y byddai’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd eisiau ei weld o safbwynt amgylcheddol.

The greening measures have been an issue of debate already. We want to see those measures remaining within pillar 2, rather than being within pillar 1. There is particular concern—we have heard about some of them already—about some of the specific measures that are listed. I would argue that there might be a question about the real environmental value of some of those measures. In looking at the growing of crops, for example, it will reduce the number of crops grown in Wales, although there is a different intention in other parts of Europe. That will reduce the variety of habitats and will therefore have an impact, I would argue, that would not be the environmental impact that the European Commission wanted to see.

Dyma hefyd y math o bethau mae ein rhaglenni amaeth-amgylchedd wedi bod yn ei hyrwyddo. Felly, man lleiaf, mae angen ystod ehangach o opsiynau gwyrddio o fewn yr hyn a gynigir, ond byddem hefyd yn cyd-fynd â’r safbwynt sydd wedi’i fynegi cyn heddiw bod angen gweld sut all Glastir gyflawni gofynion gwyrddio ac adeiladu ar a chydnabod record Cymru o safbwynt rhaglenni amaeth-amgylchedd.

This is the kind of thing that our agri-environment schemes have been promoting. Therefore, as a minimum, we would need a wider range of greening options within the proposals, but I would also agree with the view that has been expressed before today that we need to see how Glastir can achieve the objectives of the greening agenda and build on and recognise Wales’s record in terms of agri-environment schemes.

O safbwynt y taliadau sengl, tybiaf y bydd consensws, wrth symud o daliadau hanesyddol, bod angen symudiad mwy graddol, a mwy o hyblygrwydd i Gymru o safbwynt penderfynu ar gyflymder y symudiad hwnnw. Mae consyrn ynglŷn â chreu hawliau newydd gyda 2014 fel y flwyddyn gyfeirio, gan fod hynny eisoes yn mynd i gael dylanwad ar bris tir a chwyddo taliadau rhent, gan greu ansefydlogrwydd yn y diwydiant, yn enwedig o safbwynt tenantiaid. Byddem yn ategu’r sylwadau ynglŷn â’r angen i fodelu. Mae hynny’n bwysig er mwyn sicrhau ein bod yn gwbl ymwybodol o’r oblygiadau llawn i’r diwydiant yng Nghymru.

In terms of the single payment, I presume that there will be a consensus that, in moving from historic payments, we need a more gradual transition and more flexibility for Wales in taking decisions on the swiftness of that transition. There is concern about creating new entitlements with 2014 as the reference year, which is already going to have an impact on land prices and inflate rent payments, creating instability in the industry, especially from the point of view of tenants. I would endorse the comments on the need for modelling. That is important in order to ensure that we are entirely aware of the full implications for the industry in Wales.

Mae’r egwyddor o gefnogi ffermwyr ifanc yn cael ei groesawi, wrth gwrs, er ein bod yn cydnabod bod efallai angen mwy o hyblygrwydd yn y diffiniad hwnnw. Mae consyrn ynghylch cynllun ffermwyr bach, ac ynghylch pa mor fach yw ‘bach’, a goblygiadau gweld dylifiad aruthrol o hawlwyr newydd yn dod i mewn i’r system, gyda goblygiadau cyllidebol a goblygiadau i adnoddau’r Llywodraeth i weinyddu’r taliadau hynny.

The principle of supporting young farmers is to be welcomed, of course, although we do recognise that we may need a little more flexibility in that definition. There is concern about the small farmers scheme and how small is ‘small’, and the implications of seeing a huge number of new claimants coming into the system, and the funding implications of that and the implications for Government resources in administering the payments.

Un o’r ystyriaethau canolog, yn ôl datganiadau’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd, yw’r angen i sicrhau mwy o symlrwydd o fewn CAP. Fodd bynnag, mae’r cynigion, fel y maent yn sefyll, yn mynd i’r cyfeiriad arall, fe ofnaf. Yr wyf yn gwybod bydd y Dirprwy Weinidog yn mynd ati i sicrhau y bydd y polisi arfaethedig yn cael ei ddiwygio gyda hynny mewn golwg.

One of the central considerations, according to the European Commission’s statements, is the need to ensure increased simplicity within CAP. However, the proposals, as they currently stand, seem to be moving in the other direction. I know that the Deputy Minister will endeavour to ensure that the proposed policy is amended with that in mind.

Croesawaf y chwe thema o flaenoriaeth o safbwynt datblygu gwledig. Mae cyfle fan hyn inni ddatblygu sector creadigol ac arloesol, a, drwy hynny, sector mwy cystadleuol a hyfyw. Croesawaf hefyd y pwyslais ar gryfhau’r gadwyn fwyd, sydd, yn ei ystyr ehangach, yn sector sy’n cyflogi 230,000, sef tua 18 y cant o’r holl weithlu.

I welcome the six priority themes in terms of rural development. There is an opportunity here for us to develop a creative and innovative sector and, through that, a more competitive and viable sector. I also welcome the emphasis on strengthening the food chain, which, in its broadest sense, employs 230,000, which is about 18 per cent of the workforce.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. Please conclude now.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Gorffennwch yn awr, os gwelwch yn dda.

Llyr Huws Gruffydd: Bydd sicrhau’r ddêl orau i Gymru o ddiwygio’r CAP yn un o heriau pwysicaf Llywodraeth Cymru dros y blynyddoedd nesaf. Croesawaf y ffaith ei fod yn flaenoriaeth allweddol i’r Llywodraeth, ond bydd hefyd yn ffon fesur bwysig o ran ymrwymiad y Llywodraeth i’r diwydiant amaeth.

Llyr Huws Gruffydd: Ensuring the best deal for Wales in reforming CAP will be one of the greatest challenges for the Welsh Government in the next few years. I welcome the fact that it is a key priority for the Government, but it will also be an important yardstick of the Government’s commitment to the agriculture industry.

Vaughan Gething: I am pleased to speak in this debate, given my background now as the chair of the cross-party group on CAP reform, which is tasked with looking at how these proposals potentially impact on the farming industry in Wales, how we can try to maximise our own influence, and at what the Welsh Government will be doing and the recommendations that it will be making.

Vaughan Gething: Yr wyf yn falch o gael siarad yn y ddadl hon, o ystyried fy nghefndir bellach fel cadeirydd y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar ddiwygio’r PAC, sy’n gyfrifol am edrych ar sut y gallai’r cynigion hyn effeithio ar y diwydiant ffermio yng Nghymru, sut y gallwn geisio manteisio i’r eithaf ar ein dylanwad, ac ar yr hyn y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru’n ei wneud a’r argymhellion y bydd yn eu gwneud.

What has been interesting about the work that the cross-party group has done already is the fairly substantial consensus expressed by people across the farming industry and the campaign bodies and NGOs involved. That consensus is about the level of threat to Wales and its farming industry and the wider countryside and rural economy, and how that threat is seen not just as something that affects Wales and its position within the UK, but as a threat across many different member states and regions across the European Union, with which we may have common causes. Underlying all of this is the reality that the CAP represents a significant amount of public funding from the taxpayer for the farming industry and the rural economy. It is therefore about how we continue to ensure that we get a good deal for Wales—one that maintains public confidence and public support in providing that additional public funding.

Yr hyn sydd wedi bod yn ddiddorol am y gwaith y mae’r grŵp trawsbleidiol wedi ei wneud eisoes yw’r consensws eithaf sylweddol a fynegwyd gan bobl ar draws y diwydiant ffermio a’r cyrff ymgyrchu a’r cyrff anllywodraethol sy’n ymwneud â’r diwydiant. Mae’r consensws hwnnw yn ymwneud â lefel y bygythiad i Gymru a’i diwydiant ffermio, i gefn gwlad yn ehangach a’r economi wledig, a sut y gwelir y bygythiad hwnnw nid yn unig fel rhywbeth sy’n effeithio ar Gymru a’i sefyllfa o fewn y DU, ond fel bygythiad ar draws nifer o’r gwahanol aelod-wladwriaethau a rhanbarthau ledled yr Undeb Ewropeaidd y gallai fod gennym achosion yn gyffredin â nhw. Wrth wraidd hyn i gyd y mae’r realiti bod y PAC yn cynrychioli swm sylweddol o arian cyhoeddus gan y trethdalwr ar gyfer y diwydiant ffermio a’r economi wledig. Y mae felly’n ymwneud â sut yr ydym yn parhau i sicrhau y cawn fargen dda i Gymru—un sy’n cynnal hyder y cyhoedd a chefnogaeth y cyhoedd wrth ddarparu’r arian cyhoeddus ychwanegol hwnnw.

The information that we have had so far has involved talking to the European Commission and our representatives in the European Parliament. As other speakers have said, this is an area of co-decision making, where the views of the Parliament will be even more significant than ever in the past in plotting a path forward. It was especially interesting to hear the views of some farmers unions at the Royal Welsh winter fair. I have to say that, when I was elected, I did not expect that I would be chairing a CAP reform group in Builth Wells in November.

Mae’r wybodaeth a gawsom hyd yma wedi golygu siarad â’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd a’n cynrychiolwyr yn Senedd Ewrop. Fel y mae siaradwyr eraill wedi dweud, mae hwn yn faes lle ceir cydbenderfynu, lle bydd barn y Senedd hyd yn oed yn fwy arwyddocaol nag y bu erioed yn y gorffennol wrth gynllunio llwybr ymlaen. Yr oedd yn arbennig o ddiddorol i glywed barn rhai undebau ffermwyr yn ffair aeaf Brenhinol Cymru. Rhaid imi ddweud, pan gefais fy ethol nid oeddwn i’n disgwyl y byddwn yn cadeirio grŵp diwygio’r PAC yn Llanfair-ym-Muallt ym mis Tachwedd.

5.45 p.m.

Issues raised regarding the flexibility of moving to an area-based system of payment have been interesting. One obvious theme is that an early jump to this system could cause significant and hugely detrimental problems for profitable areas of our industry in Wales. Pretty much everyone in Wales has agreed on that. I do not think that we will be the only part of Europe that would find that to be a significant disadvantage if the current proposals went ahead. I say ‘current proposals’, because, again, this is a long, drawn-out negotiation process. This is not something that we will decide, here, today and this is not something that will be decided tomorrow in Europe. There will be a long period of time, over which these proposals will move. Much of our job is not only how we find proposals that we can all sign-up to, but how we can, as Team Wales, approach that within Europe to find other partners to work with us to try to deliver a set of proposals that our industry can live with. In that sense, we may find other people who will support us on the point about agri-environment schemes and greening. Agri-environment schemes in Wales have significant requirements that do not exist in the rest of Europe. With regard to looking at what the Commission is trying to achieve, it does not appear, from the evidence that we have had, that it is looking to have such a low level that people who have already made significant environmental gains should be punished.

Mae’r materion a godwyd ynghylch hyblygrwydd symud i system dalu ar sail ardal wedi bod yn ddiddorol. Un thema amlwg yw y gallai naid cynnar i’r system hon achosi problemau sylweddol a hynod niweidiol i ardaloedd proffidiol ein diwydiant yng Nghymru. Mae bron bawb yng Nghymru yn gytûn am hynny. Nid wyf yn credu mai ni fyddai’r unig ran o Ewrop a fyddai dan anfantais sylweddol pe byddai’r cynigion cyfredol yn mynd rhagddynt. Dywedaf ‘cynigion cyfredol’, oherwydd, unwaith eto, mae hon yn broses negodi hir, estynedig. Ni fyddwn yn penderfynu hyn yma heddiw ac ni fydd yn cael ei benderfynu yfory yn Ewrop. Bydd yna gyfnod hir o amser pan fydd y cynigion hyn yn symud. Mae llawer o’n gwaith ni’n ymwneud nid yn unig â sut yr ydym yn dod o hyd i gynigion y gallwn ni i gyd gytuno arnynt, ond sut y gallwn, fel Tîm Cymru, fynd i’r afael â hynny yn Ewrop er mwyn dod o hyd i bartneriaid eraill i weithio gyda ni i geisio cyflwyno cyfres o gynigion y gall ein diwydiant ei derbyn. Yn yr ystyr hwnnw, efallai y byddwn yn dod o hyd i bobl eraill a fydd yn ein cefnogi ar y pwynt am gynlluniau amaeth-amgylcheddol a materion gwyrddu. Mae gan gynlluniau amaeth-amgylcheddol yng Nghymru ofynion arwyddocaol nad ydynt yn bodoli yng ngweddill Ewrop. O ran edrych ar yr hyn y mae’r Comisiwn yn ceisio ei gyflawni, nid ymddengys, o’r dystiolaeth a gawsom, ei fod yn edrych i gael lefel mor isel fel y dylai pobl sydd eisoes wedi gwneud enillion amgylcheddol arwyddocaol gael eu cosbi.

Some of the other big themes that arose were this conflict between complexity and simplicity—the Commission said that it wanted to introduce simplicity—and the proposals as they stand, and how you can provide a system that is fair, without it being, in many respects, complex, given the variety of farming land that we have in Wales, let alone across the whole of Europe. That in itself is a significant challenge.

Mae rhai o’r themâu mawr eraill a gododd yn y gwrthdaro hwn rhwng cymhlethdod a symlrwydd—dywedodd y Comisiwn ei fod eisiau cyflwyno symlrwydd—a’r cynigion fel y maent, a sut y gallwch chi ddarparu system sy’n deg, heb iddo fod, mewn llawer agwedd, yn gymhleth, o ystyried amrywiaeth y tir ffermio sydd gennym yng Nghymru, heb sôn am ar draws Ewrop gyfan. Mae hynny ynddo’i hun yn her sylweddol.

One thing that we also need to think about—it is one of the comments made by the Deputy Minister, and the NFU made it at the evidence session on Monday—is how we eventually move to a position where the farming industry in Wales reaches a level of profitability, and where it is not quite as reliant on the significant funding available from the CAP. We should try to see this from a point of where we move towards that position. We know that, in Europe, there are other regions that have a different structure to their farming industry. Something that would work for them would certainly not work for us. So, let us not underestimate the challenge, and recognise that much of the clarity that we seek will not be provided for a significant period of time. Our view, and our work, in trying to influence our partners and colleagues across Europe—the task and finish group will do its part within that—is certainly not going to be completed by the end of this debate, but we look forward to playing a constructive role. I look forward to Team Wales having a unified position. We will have to do our best within this Chamber, and with other Chambers across Europe, to get a good deal for our farmers.

Un peth y mae angen i ni hefyd feddwl amdano—mae’n un o’r sylwadau a wnaeth y Dirprwy Weinidog ac a wnaeth yr NFU yn y sesiwn dystiolaeth ar ddydd Llun—yw sut yr ydym yn y pen draw yn symud i sefyllfa lle mae’r diwydiant ffermio yng Nghymru yn cyrraedd lefel o broffidioldeb, a lle nad yw mor ddibynnol ar y cyllid sylweddol sydd ar gael gan y PAC. Dylem geisio gweld hyn o fan lle’r ydym yn symud tuag at y sefyllfa honno. Gwyddom fod gan ranbarthau eraill yn Ewrop strwythur gwahanol i’w diwydiant ffermio. Yn sicr, ni fyddai rhywbeth a fyddai’n gweithio iddynt hwy yn gweithio i ni. Felly, gadewch i ni beidio â dibrisio’r her, gan gydnabod na fydd llawer o’r eglurder yr ydym yn chwilio amdano ar gael am gyfnod sylweddol o amser. Yn sicr nid yw ein barn ni na’n gwaith, wrth geisio dylanwadu ar ein partneriaid a chydweithwyr ar draws Ewrop—gwnaiff y grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen ei ran o fewn hynny—yn mynd i fod yn gyflawn erbyn diwedd y ddadl hon, ond edrychwn ymlaen at chwarae rôl adeiladol. Yr wyf yn edrych ymlaen at weld safbwynt unedig Tîm Cymru. Bydd yn rhaid i ni wneud ein gorau o fewn y Siambr hon, gyda Siambrau eraill ar draws Ewrop, er mwyn cael bargen dda ar gyfer ein ffermwyr.

William Powell: I welcome this debate today. Indeed, some colleagues around the Chamber have already made some of the points that I wished to make. Like several other Members, I had the pleasure of attending the Royal Welsh winter fair at Llanelwedd yesterday. The CAP task and finish group had a busy morning. We took evidence from NFU Cymru, from the FUW, from the Country Land and Business Association, and indeed, our host was YFC Cymru—we met in its pavilion; that was an appreciated gesture.

William Powell: Croesawaf y ddadl hon heddiw. Yn wir, mae rhai cyd-Aelodau o gwmpas y Siambr eisoes wedi gwneud rhai o’r pwyntiau yr oeddwn am eu gwneud. Fel nifer o Aelodau eraill, cefais y pleser o fynychu ffair aeaf Brenhinol Cymru yn Llanelwedd ddoe. Yr oedd gan y grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen PAC fore prysur. Cawsom dystiolaeth gan NFU Cymru,  yr FUW, Cymdeithas Tir a Busnesau Cefn Gwlad, ac, yn wir, CFfI Cymru oedd ein gwesteiwr—gwnaethom gyfarfod yn ei bafiliwn; yr oedd hynny’n arwydd y gwnaethom ei werthfawrogi.

The truth about CAP is stark. The Welsh agriculture industry, as things currently stand, would not be able to survive without it. That is why the motion before us today is so important, and why I urge you all to support it. In recent years, Welsh farmers have endured an increasing series of challenges. We have seen BSE, followed by foot and mouth disease—twice—and then, for years, the shadow of bluetongue restrictions left the industry reeling. Indeed, less resilient industries would have collapsed under all that pressure. As we all know well enough, innovative and successful agri-environment schemes such as Tir Cymen and Tir Gofal have been followed by the slow and rather painful birth of Glastir, notwithstanding the recent change in midwife.

Mae’r gwir am PAC yn gwbl glir. Fel y saif pethau ar hyn o bryd, ni fyddai’r diwydiant amaeth yng Nghymru yn gallu goroesi hebddo. Dyna pam mae’r cynnig ger ein bron heddiw mor bwysig, a pham yr wyf yn eich annog chi i gyd i’w gefnogi. Yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf, mae ffermwyr Cymru wedi dioddef cyfres gynyddol o heriau. Yr ydym wedi gweld BSE, ac wedyn clwy’r traed a’r genau—ddwywaith—yna, am flynyddoedd, cysgod cyfyngiadau tafod glas yn gadael y diwydiant yn sigledig iawn. Yn wir, byddai diwydiannau llai gwydn wedi dymchwel dan yr holl bwysau hynny. Fel yr ydym i gyd yn gwybod yn ddigon da, mae cynlluniau amaeth-amgylcheddol arloesol a llwyddiannus fel Tir Cymen a Thir Gofal wedi eu holynu gan enedigaeth araf a braidd yn boenus Glastir, er gwaethaf y newid bydwraig yn ddiweddar.

Not surprisingly, the details contained in the latest batch of CAP reform proposals from Commissioner Cioloş lack some clarity. The Deputy Minister has made it clear how that is the case now, because we are still early in the process, so it is difficult to comment in detail on what these proposals will mean for farmers and growers across the length and breadth of Wales. However, what we can say is that intensive livestock farms, be they beef or dairy, appear to be among those that will suffer problems. We welcome the Deputy Minister’s readiness to consider targeting support in that direction. It is essential that we continue working closely with the European Commission and, indeed, the UK Government and the other devolved administrations, to secure a fair deal for farmers across the country. Although they express disappointment at the deputy ministerial appointment for agriculture, there was recognition yesterday from the farmers unions for the energetic way in which the Deputy Minister has been conducting his business.

Nid yw’n syndod bod y manylion a gynhwysir yn y casgliad diweddaraf o gynigion diwygio’r PAC gan Gomisiynydd Cioloş ychydig yn astrus. Mae’r Dirprwy Weinidog wedi ei gwneud hi’n glir sut y mae hynny’n wir yn awr, oherwydd rydym yn dal i fod yng nghamau cynnar y broses, felly mae’n anodd gwneud sylwadau manwl ar yr hyn y bydd y cynigion hyn yn ei olygu ar gyfer ffermwyr a thyfwyr ar hyd a lled Cymru. Fodd bynnag, yr hyn y gallwn ei ddweud yw bod ffermydd da byw dwys, boed yn eidion neu laeth, yn ymddangos i fod ymysg y rhai a fydd yn dioddef problemau. Croesawn barodrwydd y Dirprwy Weinidog i ystyried targedu cefnogaeth i’r cyfeiriad hwnnw. Mae’n hanfodol ein bod yn parhau i weithio’n agos gyda’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd ac, yn wir, Llywodraeth y DU a’r gweinyddiaethau datganoledig eraill, i sicrhau bargen deg i ffermwyr ar draws y wlad. Er eu bod yn mynegi siom ynghylch y penodiad dirprwy weinidogol ar gyfer amaethyddiaeth, cafwyd cydnabyddiaeth ddoe gan undebau ffermwyr am y ffordd egnïol y mae’r Dirprwy Weinidog wedi bod yn gweithredu.

To turn to the Conservative amendments, we are happy to support amendments 1 and 3, tabled in the name of William Graham. I think that we can all agree that the main function of the CAP is to safeguard the future of farming and food production across Europe. We should not forget that the CAP was first introduced by people who lived through the devastation of world war two, and who still remembered what it was like to be hungry. That is important. Food security remains a key objective of the CAP, as, indeed, does a viable farming industry in Wales. In time, there is scope to harness the CAP, as has been said, as a way to foster greater profitability in the industry for future generations. Allied to this, we particularly welcome the new entrants’ scheme under pillar 1 to bring people in their early and, as Llyr Huws Gruffydd has said, middle years, into the industry. The average age of farmers in Wales is rising at an alarming rate, and this represents a genuine threat to the future sustainability of the industry. The Welsh Liberal Democrats are pleased to see that amendment 2, regarding the greening proposals under pillar 1, has been withdrawn. While we support a more refined approach to genuine greening, not mere greenwash, that amendment was far too crude an instrument, and we welcome its removal.

I droi at welliannau’r Ceidwadwyr, yr ydym yn fodlon cefnogi gwelliannau 1 a 3, a gyflwynwyd yn enw William Graham. Credaf y gallwn ni i gyd gytuno mai prif swyddogaeth y PAC yw diogelu dyfodol ffermio a chynhyrchu bwyd ar draws Ewrop. Ni ddylem anghofio y cafodd y PAC ei gyflwyno’n gyntaf gan bobl a oedd wedi byw drwy ddinistr yr ail ryfel byd, a oedd yn dal i gofio sut brofiad oedd llwgu. Mae hynny’n bwysig. Mae diogelwch bwyd yn parhau i fod yn amcan allweddol yn y PAC, fel, yn wir, y mae diwydiant ffermio hyfyw yng Nghymru. Ymhen amser, mae lle i harneisio PAC, fel y dywedwyd, fel ffordd o feithrin mwy o elw yn y diwydiant ar gyfer cenedlaethau’r dyfodol. Yn gysylltiedig â hyn, yr ydym yn rhoi croeso arbennig i’r cynllun ar gyfer newydd-ddyfodiaid dan golofn 1 i ddod ag oedolion ifanc ac, fel dywedodd Llyr Huws Gruffydd, yn eu blynyddoedd canol, i mewn i’r diwydiant. Mae oedran cyfartalog ffermwyr Cymru yn cynyddu ar raddfa frawychus, ac mae hyn yn fygythiad gwirioneddol i gynaliadwyedd y diwydiant yn y dyfodol. Mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn falch o weld bod gwelliant 2, ynghylch y cynigion gwyrddu dan golofn 1, wedi cael ei dynnu’n ôl. Er ein bod yn cefnogi dull manylach tuag at wyrddu go iawn, nid gwyrddgalchu yn unig, yr oedd y gwelliant yn offeryn rhy amrwd o lawer, ac yr ydym yn croesawu ei fod wedi cael ei symud.

However, we will be supporting amendment 3 regarding transitional arrangements. We join the farmers unions, CLBA and YFC Cymru in supporting the call for a transition period of at least seven years. Such reform has to be a process, not an event, and that is vital to recognise. By supporting this motion, and amendments 1 and 3, we are demonstrating our commitment to working for a strong and sustainable CAP. I urge you to support the motion.

Fodd bynnag, byddwn yn cefnogi gwelliant 3 ynglŷn â threfniadau pontio. Yr ydym yn ymuno â’r undebau ffermwyr, CLBA a CFfI Cymru wrth gefnogi’r alwad am gyfnod pontio o saith mlynedd o leiaf. Mae’n rhaid i ddiwygio o’r fath fod yn broses, nid  yn ddigwyddiad, ac mae’n hanfodol cydnabod hynny. Drwy gefnogi’r cynnig hwn, a gwelliannau 1 a 3, yr ydym yn dangos ein hymrwymiad i weithio dros PAC cryf a chynaliadwy. Fe’ch anogaf i gefnogi’r cynnig.

Rebecca Evans: As another member of the Assembly’s CAP task and finish group, I also welcome today’s debate. The task and finish group has received a great deal of interest and engagement from across the farming and environmental sectors and beyond, and our early discussions have proved useful and informative. Several key areas of concern have emerged. I will highlight a couple of those today, as well as one or two smaller matters that I do not want to see getting lost in the discussions. As others have alluded to, in the evidence that the group has taken, there has been almost universal support for the transition period for the move towards area-based payments to be lengthened and for member states to be given the flexibility to decide the rate of change. The Deputy Minister’s suggestion that that transition period should be extended to seven years has been well received, and I would encourage him to continue to press for this in his discussions at the UK and European levels.

Rebecca Evans: Fel aelod arall o grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen PAC y Cynulliad, yr wyf i hefyd yn croesawu’r ddadl heddiw. Mae’r grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen wedi gweld llawer iawn o ddiddordeb ac ymgysylltiad gan bob rhan o’r sectorau ffermio ac amgylcheddol a thu hwnt, ac mae ein trafodaethau cynnar wedi bod yn ddefnyddiol ac yn addysgiadol. Mae sawl maes allweddol o bryder wedi dod i’r amlwg. Tynnaf sylw at un neu ddau ohonynt heddiw, yn ogystal ag un neu ddau o faterion llai nad wyf am eu gweld yn mynd ar goll yn y trafodaethau. Fel y mae eraill wedi sôn, yn y dystiolaeth a gafodd y grŵp wedi, cafwyd cefnogaeth unfrydol bron ar gyfer estyn y cyfnod pontio ar gyfer symud tuag at daliadau seiliedig ar ardal ac i aelod-wladwriaethau i gael yr hyblygrwydd i benderfynu ar y gyfradd newid. Cafodd awgrym y Dirprwy Weinidog y dylid ymestyn y cyfnod pontio hwnnw i saith mlynedd dderbyniad da, a byddwn yn ei annog ef i barhau i bwyso am hyn yn ei drafodaethau ar lefelau’r DU ac Ewrop.

While we have heard diverging views on the principle of greening pillar 1 payments, there is significant agreement that the regulations as they stand need to be amended. While organisations representing the interests of farmers are generally opposed to any greening of pillar 1, those representing environmental interests believe that greening is essential in assisting Wales to meet its legal obligation to halt the loss of biodiversity by 2020. Nonetheless, they also have serious concerns about the proposals as they currently stand. For example, the RSPB has said that the current greening proposals will deliver very little additional benefit in environmental terms, when considered within the Welsh context. The definition of ‘permanent pastures’, as it now stands, may protect some grassland of very little environmental benefit, including intensively managed, frequently seeded grasslands, while not protecting more important ones, such as semi-natural pastures that are rich in biodiversity and provide a range of ecosystem benefits, such as carbon storage and flood protection. In addition, there is deep concern that setting the reference period at 2014 may set an incentive for some farmers to plough up pastures before the new programming period commences. I ask the Deputy Minister to consider how this could be avoided.

Er ein bod wedi clywed safbwyntiau gwahanol ar yr egwyddor o daliadau gwyrddu colofn 1, mae cytundeb sylweddol bod angen diwygio’r rheoliadau fel y maent. Er bod sefydliadau sy’n cynrychioli buddiannau ffermwyr yn gyffredinol yn gwrthwynebu unrhyw wyrddu yng ngholofn 1, mae’r rhai sy’n cynrychioli buddiannau amgylcheddol yn credu bod gwyrddu yn hanfodol wrth gynorthwyo Cymru i fodloni ei rhwymedigaeth gyfreithiol i atal colli bioamrywiaeth erbyn 2020. Serch hynny, mae ganddynt hefyd bryderon difrifol ynghylch y cynigion fel y maent ar hyn o bryd. Er enghraifft, mae’r RSPB wedi dweud y bydd y cynigion gwyrddu presennol yn dod ag ychydig iawn o fudd ychwanegol o ran yr amgylchedd, wrth eu hystyried yn y cyd-destun Cymreig. Gall y diffiniad o ‘tir pori parhaol’, fel y mae ar hyn o bryd, ddiogelu peth glaswelltir ag ychydig iawn o fudd amgylcheddol, gan gynnwys glaswelltiroedd wedi eu hau yn aml a’u rheoli’n ddwys, heb ddiogelu rhai pwysicach, fel tir pori lled naturiol sy’n gyfoethog mewn bioamrywiaeth ac yn darparu ystod o fuddion ecosystem, fel storio carbon a diogelu rhag llifogydd. Yn ogystal, mae pryder dwfn y gall gosod y cyfnod cyfeirio yn 2014 gymell rhai ffermwyr i aredig porfeydd cyn i gyfnod y rhaglen newydd ddechrau. Gofynnaf i’r Dirprwy Weinidog ystyried sut mae modd osgoi hyn.

The crop diversification measure will have little impact in Wales due to the limited nature of the arable sector here. We need to make CAP work for farmers and the environment, and the two do not have to be mutually exclusive. There seems to be some broad support across the board for the Deputy Minister’s suggestion that a menu of greening options should be offered. I ask the Deputy Minister to pursue this option, but he should ensure that every option on the menu should be meaningful and challenging, driving forward improvements rather than maintaining the status quo.

Bydd y mesur ar dyfu amrywiaeth o gnydau yn cael llawer o effaith yng Nghymru oherwydd natur gyfyngedig y sector âr yma. Mae angen i ni wneud i PAC weithio dros ffermwyr a’r amgylchedd, ac nid oes angen i’r ddau fod yn annibynnol ar ei gilydd. Mae’n ymddangos bod rhywfaint o gefnogaeth eang yn gyffredinol i awgrym y Dirprwy Weinidog y dylai dewislen o opsiynau gwyrddu gael ei chynnig. Gofynnaf i’r Dirprwy Weinidog ddilyn yr opsiwn hwn, ond dylai sicrhau bod pob opsiwn ar y ddewislen yn ystyrlon ac yn heriol, yn ysgogi gwelliannau yn hytrach na chynnal y status quo.

I would like to say something about the European partnership for innovation for agricultural productivity and the prize for innovative, local co-operation in rural areas. We really need more detail on both of these proposals. Unfortunately, when I raised this with the European Commission during its evidence session, it was unable to supply that detail, although it has promised to follow it up in written evidence. The key will be whether the partnership proposal has the ability to move the industry forward in Wales and entrench profitability and sustainability. Developing links and expertise could strengthen the industry, and the stimulation of activity within the sector can stimulate the creation of wealth more widely. The prize for innovation sounds as if it has potential, but there are already issues emerging. I understand that it is for certain organisations for certain activities and has to be between two member states, for example.

Hoffwn ddweud rhywbeth am y bartneriaeth Ewropeaidd ar gyfer arloesi ar gyfer cynhyrchiant amaethyddol a’r wobr ar gyfer cydweithio lleol, arloesol mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Mae gwir angen mwy o fanylion ar y ddau gynnig hyn arnom. Yn anffodus, pan godais hyn gyda’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd yn ystod ei sesiwn dystiolaeth, ni allai ddarparu’r manylion hynny, er ei fod wedi addo dilyn i fyny ar y mater mewn tystiolaeth ysgrifenedig. Pa un a fydd cynnig y bartneriaeth yn gallu symud y diwydiant yn ei flaen yng Nghymru a sefydlu proffidioldeb a chynaliadwyedd fydd yr allwedd i hyn. Gallai datblygu cysylltiadau ac arbenigedd gryfhau’r diwydiant, a gall ysgogi gweithgarwch o fewn y sector ysgogi greu cyfoeth yn ehangach. Swnia fel pe bai potensial gan y wobr ar gyfer arloesedd, ond mae materion yn dod i’r amlwg yn barod. Yr wyf ar ddeall ei bod ar gyfer sefydliadau penodol ar gyfer gweithgareddau penodol ac yn gorfod bod rhwng dwy aelod-wladwriaeth, er enghraifft.

I ask the Deputy Minister to join me in recognising the contribution that these initiatives could make, and in recognising that we really need to make these initiatives work for Wales. At the same time, there will be a need to co-ordinate the range of networks and partnerships already in existence to ensure that these innovations add value. At this time of economic constraint, it is more important than ever that CAP delivers value for public money and is seen to be doing so. For CAP payments to be legitimate in the eyes of taxpayers, they must be clearly and demonstrably linked to the provision of public goods and services. Evidence that the group has heard has questioned the use of public funds in the proposals pertaining to risk management in the rural development regulation. This measure would support farmers to cover crop insurance premiums, something that is arguably the role of the business itself, and also provide an income stabilisation tool to provide financial assistance to farmers facing a severe drop in income. These issues combined provide a disincentive for farmers to address risk robustly as part of their business plans.

Gofynnaf i’r Dirprwy Weinidog ymuno â mi yn cydnabod y cyfraniad y gallai’r mentrau hyn ei wneud, ac yn cydnabod bod gwir angen i ni wneud i’r cynlluniau hyn weithio dros Gymru. Ar yr un pryd, bydd angen cydlynu’r ystod o rwydweithiau a phartneriaethau sydd eisoes yn bodoli er mwyn sicrhau bod y datblygiadau newydd hyn yn ychwanegu gwerth. Ar yr adeg hon o gyfyngiadau economaidd, mae’n bwysicach nag erioed bod y PAC yn rhoi gwerth am arian cyhoeddus ac yn cael ei weld yn gwneud hynny. Fel bod taliadau PAC yn gyfiawn yng ngolwg trethdalwyr, mae’n rhaid iddynt fod wedi eu cysylltu yn glir ac yn amlwg â darparu nwyddau a gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Mae tystiolaeth a glywodd y grŵp wedi cwestiynu’r defnydd o arian cyhoeddus yn y cynigion sy’n ymwneud â rheoli risg yn y rheoliad datblygu gwledig. Byddai’r mesur hwn yn cefnogi ffermwyr i dalu premiymau yswiriant cnydau, rhywbeth y gellir dadlau yw rôl y busnes ei hun, a hefyd darparu offeryn sefydlogi incwm i ddarparu cymorth ariannol i ffermwyr sy’n wynebu gostyngiad difrifol mewn incwm. Gyda’i gilydd, mae’r materion hyn yn gwrthannog ffermwyr i ymdrin â risg yn gadarn fel rhan o’u cynlluniau busnes.

As others have said, we are still very much in the early stage of this process, and I look forward to a continued dialogue with the interested parties. I am confident that the Welsh Government will do everything that it can to get the best deal for Welsh farmers, the Welsh environment and rural communities more widely.

Fel y mae eraill wedi dweud, yr ydym yn dal i fod yng nghyfnod cynnar y broses hon, ac edrychaf ymlaen at ddeialog barhaus gyda’r partïon sydd â diddordeb. Yr wyf yn hyderus y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwneud popeth yn ei gallu i gael y fargen orau i ffermwyr Cymru, amgylchedd Cymru a chymunedau gwledig yn fwy eang.

Russell George: I thank the Government for bringing this forward today. I also thank the Deputy Minister for talking about listening to Members in his opening remarks. It is vitally important for European states, as we embark on this long and protracted negotiation process over the future direction of CAP, that we, in the National Assembly, try to forge a position of consensus, as Vaughan Gething mentioned. It will be this that will strengthen the bargaining arm of the UK Government. We know of the challenges and demands on the European agricultural sector during the next decades—growth across the world will increase, shifts in population migration, financial insecurity, growing concerns over food and energy security and the impacts of climate change will, ultimately, mean that farmers will be expected to grow more food with reduced resources. It is, therefore, fundamental that joined-up policies between Governments are created so that CAP, post 2013, has the potential to provide a coherent policy framework that allows Europe to react to the imminent changes.

Russell George: Diolch i’r Llywodraeth am ddod â hwn gerbron heddiw. Diolch hefyd i’r Dirprwy Weinidog am siarad am wrando ar yr Aelodau yn ei sylwadau agoriadol. Mae’n hanfodol bwysig i wladwriaethau Ewrop, wrth i ni ddechrau ar y broses negodi hir a maith hon dros gyfeiriad y PAC yn y dyfodol, ein bod ni, yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, yn ceisio creu consensws, fel y crybwyllodd Vaughan Gething. Dyma fydd yn cryfhau  Llywodraeth y DU wrth fargeinio. Gwyddom am yr heriau a’r galwadau ar y sector amaethyddol Ewropeaidd yn ystod y degawdau nesaf—bydd twf ar draws y byd yn cynyddu, newidiadau mewn mudo poblogaethau, ansicrwydd ariannol, pryderon cynyddol ynghylch diogelwch bwyd ac ynni ac effeithiau newid yn yr hinsawdd, yn y pen draw, yn golygu y bydd disgwyl i ffermwyr dyfu mwy o fwyd gyda llai o adnoddau. Felly, mae’n hanfodol bod polisïau cydgysylltiedig rhwng Llywodraethau yn cael eu creu fel bod gan y PAC, ar ôl 2013, y potensial i ddarparu fframwaith polisi cydlynol sy’n caniatáu i Ewrop ymateb i’r newidiadau sydd ar fin digwydd.

However, it is important for us, as politicians, not to get drawn in to the politics of CAP reform but rather focus our minds on the role of the Welsh family farmer, who has to balance the competing interests of food production with environmental protection, while trying to make a living and trying to make a business viable.

Fodd bynnag, mae’n bwysig i ni, fel gwleidyddion, beidio â chael ein tynnu i mewn i wleidyddiaeth diwygio’r PAC. Yn hytrach, dylem ganolbwyntio ar rôl y ffermwr teulu Cymreig, sy’n gorfod cydbwyso buddiannau sy’n cystadlu, sef cynhyrchu bwyd a diogelu’r amgylchedd, wrth geisio gwneud bywoliaeth a cheisio gwneud busnes yn hyfyw.

6.00 p.m.

Therefore, it is right that we should use the four guiding principles, as conveyed by NFU Cymru, on which future proposals should be set. These are: simplicity, meaning less bureaucracy and red tape; commonality, where farmers across the EU are treated as equally and fairly as possible; market-oriented, allowing market signals to drive production; and productivity and competitiveness, ensuring that the sectors become more competitive and productive in a sustainable way. Welsh farmers also want to be allowed to be more competitive with other European producers. That competition should be on a fair basis. There should be a level playing field, meaning that animal welfare and production standards should be as robust across the EU as they are in Britain. Farmers should receive an equitable return for their produce.

Felly, mae’n iawn y dylem ddefnyddio’r pedair egwyddor arweiniol, fel y cyfleuwyd gan NFU Cymru, y dylid gosod cynigion arnynt yn y dyfodol. Y rhain yw: symlrwydd, sy’n golygu llai o fiwrocratiaeth a thâp coch; cyffredinedd, lle mae ffermwyr ar draws yr UE yn cael eu trin mor gyfartal a theg â phosibl; canolbwyntio ar y farchnad,   caniatáu i arwyddion y farchnad i yrru cynhyrchu; a chynhyrchiant a chystadleurwydd, gan sicrhau bod y sectorau yn dod yn fwy cystadleuol a chynhyrchiol mewn ffordd gynaliadwy. Mae ffermwyr Cymru hefyd am gael yr hawl i fod yn fwy cystadleuol gyda chynhyrchwyr eraill yn Ewrop. Dylai’r gystadleuaeth hynny fod ar sail deg. Dylai fod chwarae teg, sy’n golygu y dylai lles anifeiliaid a safonau cynhyrchu fod mor gadarn ar draws yr UE ag y maent ym Mhrydain. Dylai ffermwyr dderbyn elw teg ar gyfer eu cynnyrch.

Moving to this position will obviously take some time, and it is imperative that CAP proposals will take us in that direction. There is obvious concern among Welsh farmers that a rapid change to the basic payment model, coupled with compulsory greening and reclassification of less favoured areas, will have an adverse effect on Welsh farming, with ramifications for economy and food production.

Bydd symud at y sefyllfa hon yn amlwg yn cymryd peth amser, ac mae’n hanfodol y bydd cynigion PAC yn mynd â ni i’r cyfeiriad hwnnw. Mae pryder amlwg ymysg ffermwyr Cymru bod newid cyflym i’r model taliad sylfaenol, ynghyd â gwyrddu gorfodol ac ailddosbarthu ardaloedd llai ffafriol, bydd yn cael effaith andwyol ar ffermio yng Nghymru, gyda goblygiadau ar gyfer economi a chynhyrchu bwyd.

Therefore, it is imperative that the Welsh Government works closely with the UK Government in order to progress Welsh interests and ensure that British farmers are not unduly penalised or disadvantaged by any new proposals. We must ensure that there is a consistent message coming from this place on these key issues. We want a fair allocation and a simple system that will make agriculture more market-oriented and competitive. I hope that that is the clear message coming out of this debate today.

Felly, mae’n hanfodol bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithio’n agos gyda Llywodraeth y DU er mwyn bwrw ymlaen â buddiannau Cymru a sicrhau nad yw ffermwyr Prydain yn cael eu cosbi’n ormodol neu dan anfantais oherwydd unrhyw gynigion newydd. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod neges gyson yn dod o’r lle hwn ar y materion allweddol hyn. Yr ydym am  gael dyraniad teg a system syml a fydd yn sicrhau fod amaethyddiaeth yn canolbwyntio mwy ar y farchnad ac yn gystadleuol. Yr wyf yn gobeithio mai dyna’r neges glir a fydd yn dod allan o’r ddadl hon heddiw.

Finally, I was really pleased to hear the Deputy Minister talk so much in his opening remarks about the importance of listening to the farming community. Thank you.

Yn olaf, yr oeddwn yn falch iawn o glywed y Dirprwy Weinidog yn siarad cymaint yn ei sylwadau agoriadol am bwysigrwydd gwrando ar y gymuned ffermio. Diolch.

Nick Ramsay: Many of the points that I was going to make have been made. However, I am pleased that, in his opening comments, the Deputy Minister said that he is here to listen. I am also pleased that amendments 1 and 2 will be supported. It is undeniably important that CAP reform continues to be a key priority of the Welsh Government. Listening to many of the arguments that have been made in the debate this afternoon, I am hearing a degree of unanimity on the issues involved and on the importance that the Deputy Minister referred to of speaking as much as we can coherently with one voice.

Nick Ramsay: Mae llawer o’r pwyntiau yr oeddwn am eu gwneud wedi cael eu gwneud. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn falch bod y Dirprwy Weinidog wedi dweud, yn ei sylwadau agoriadol, ei fod yma i wrando. Yr wyf hefyd yn falch y bydd gwelliannau 1 a 2 yn cael eu cefnogi. Mae’n bwysig yn ddiau fod diwygio’r PAC yn parhau i fod yn flaenoriaeth allweddol i Lywodraeth Cymru. Wrth wrando ar lawer o’r dadleuon a wnaed yn y ddadl y prynhawn yma, clywais rywfaint o unfrydedd ar y materion dan sylw ac ar bwysigrwydd, y cyfeiriodd y Dirprwy Weinidog ato, siarad cymaint ag y gallwn yn gydlynus ag un llais.

I am certainly pleased that amendments 1 and 2 are being supported. With regard to the amendment that has been withdrawn—

Yr wyf yn sicr yn falch bod gwelliannau 1 a 2 yn cael eu cefnogi. O ran y gwelliant sydd wedi cael ei dynnu’n ôl —

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. I should clarify proceedings. Amendment 2 was withdrawn. Amendments 1 and 3 are before us.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Dylwn egluro trafodion. Tynnwyd gwelliant 2 yn ôl. Mae gwelliannau 1 a 3 ger ein bron.

Nick Ramsay: Yes, I am sorry. I apologise for confusing the issue, Deputy Presiding Officer. With regard to amendment 2, which has been withdrawn, the issue of greening is, nonetheless, important. I know that concerns have been conveyed to the CAP task and finish group. There is the issue of the penalties farmers face if they are unable to meet requirements. I hope that these will be addressed by the group and the Deputy Minister in his discussions. I was listening to William Powell’s comments earlier. I thought that his comment about ‘greenwash’ was an interesting one. There is no doubt that, with regard to greening and setting aside areas of 85 per cent, as I think Antoinette Sandbach mentioned earlier in her contribution, there is no doubt that farmers are worried about the potential fossilisation of land that has been grass for more than five years.

Nick Ramsay: Iawn, mae’n ddrwg gennyf. Ymddiheuraf am ddrysu o ran y mater hwn, Ddirprwy Lywydd. O ran gwelliant 2, sydd wedi cael ei dynnu’n ôl, mae’r mater o wyrddu, serch hynny, yn bwysig. Gwn fod pryderon wedi eu cyfleu i’r grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen ar y PAC. Mae’r mater o ffermwyr sy’n wynebu cosbau os nad ydynt yn gallu bodloni gofynion. Gobeithiaf y bydd y rhain yn cael sylw gan y grŵp a’r Dirprwy Weinidog yn ei drafodaethau. Yr oeddwn yn gwrando ar sylwadau William Powell yn gynharach. Roeddwn i’n meddwl bod ei sylw am ‘wyrddgalchu’ yn un diddorol. Nid oes unrhyw amheuaeth o ran gwyrddu a neilltuo ardaloedd o 85 y cant, fel y credaf y soniodd Antoinette Sandbach yn gynharach yn ei chyfraniad, bod ffermwyr yn poeni am y ffosileiddio posibl o dir sydd wedi bod yn borfa am fwy na phum mlynedd.

Finally, on the issue of modelling, which has been mentioned by others in the debate, I know that the NFU has asked for detailed modelling in relation to the effect of the regional shifts that are implicit in the situation we are in at the moment. We need to look at whether the resource distribution can be achieved within the parameters of what we have. All of these arguments have been made. As I say, I am pleased that amendments 1 and 3 will be supported by the Government.

Yn olaf, ar fodelu, a grybwyllwyd gan eraill yn y ddadl, gwn fod yr NFU wedi gofyn am fodelu manwl mewn perthynas ag effaith y sifftiau rhanbarthol sydd ymhlyg yn y sefyllfa yr ydym ynddi ar hyn o bryd. Mae angen inni edrych a all y dosbarthiad adnoddau cael ei gyflawni o fewn y paramedrau hyn sydd gennym. Mae pob un o’r dadleuon hyn wedi’u gwneud. Fel y dywedais, yr wyf yn falch y bydd gwelliannau 1 a 3 yn cael eu cefnogi gan y Llywodraeth.

The Deputy Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries, Food and European Programmes (Alun Davies): I thank all Members who took part in the debate this afternoon. I am pleased to recognise the broad consensus that is clearly emerging from all parts of the Chamber. I am working closely with the United Kingdom Government and the other devolved administrations within the United Kingdom. I am also speaking and working directly with the Commission to ensure that Wales’s voice is heard and understood. That voice is all the stronger where there is consensus in this place.

Y Dirprwy Weinidog Amaethyddiaeth, Bwyd, Pysgodfeydd a Rhaglenni Ewropeaidd (Alun Davies): Diolchaf i’r holl Aelodau a gymerodd ran yn y ddadl y prynhawn yma. Yr wyf yn falch o gydnabod y consensws eang sy’n dod i’r amlwg yn glir o bob rhan o’r Siambr. Yr wyf yn gweithio’n agos gyda Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig a’r gweinyddiaethau datganoledig eraill o fewn y Deyrnas Unedig. Yr wyf hefyd yn siarad a gweithio’n uniongyrchol gyda’r Comisiwn i sicrhau bod llais Cymru yn cael ei glywed a’i ddeall. Mae’r llais hwnnw’n yn llawer cryfach lle ceir consensws yn y lle hwn.

Many Members have spoken about the simplification of the proposals. Amen to that. Often, simplification is not something that translates easily and many of the demands that have been made by people will, in fact, militate against simplification. I want to see that simplification. I also welcome, and we need to welcome, the potential for integration of the CAP with other European funding streams. These are all matters that will dominate the debate over the coming year.

Mae llawer o Aelodau wedi siarad am symleiddio’r cynigion. Amen i hynny. Yn aml, nid yw symleiddio yn rhywbeth sy’n trosi’n hawdd a bydd llawer o’r galwadau a wnaed gan bobl, mewn gwirionedd, yn milwrio yn erbyn symleiddio. Yr wyf am weld y symleiddio hwnnw. Yr wyf hefyd yn croesawu, ac mae angen i ni ei groesawu, y potensial ar gyfer integreiddio’r PAC gyda ffrydiau cyllid Ewropeaidd eraill. Mae’r rhain i gyd yn faterion a fydd yn dominyddu’r ddadl dros y flwyddyn nesaf.

Many Members also referred to the issues around transition. I referred to this in my statement on CAP in July. The move to area-based payments has broad agreement; it is clearly not acceptable to provide a payment regime from 2014 that is based on production and land use from the early parts of the last decade. There is clear agreement. When I discussed this matter with the Commissioner, we had a clear agreement on the destination point at 2020, where we are and where we need to be. The purpose of the discussion that we are having now is to decide how we get there. The Commissioner appeared to be flexible in terms of the discussions that we can have; there was certainly a broad recognition and welcome for the fact that the destination point was agreed and there was no dispute over where we need to be. I hope that we will be able to win sufficient flexibility for us here to determine how we reach that point.

Cyfeiriodd llawer o Aelodau hefyd at y materion sy’n ymwneud â phontio. Cyfeiriais at hyn yn fy natganiad ar y PAC ym mis Gorffennaf. Mae gan y symudiad i daliadau sy’n seiliedig ar ardaloedd gytundeb cyffredinol; mae’n amlwg nad yw’n dderbyniol i ddarparu cyfundrefn taliad o 2014 sy’n seiliedig ar gynhyrchu a defnyddio tir o rannau cynnar y degawd diwethaf. Ceir cytundeb clir. Pan drafodais y mater hwn gyda’r Comisiynydd, cawsom gytundeb clir ar y pwynt cyrchfan yn 2020, lle’r ydym ni a lle mae angen inni fod. Pwrpas ein trafodaeth yn awr yw penderfynu sut yr ydym yn cyrraedd yno. Yr oedd y Comisiynydd yn ymddangos yn hyblyg o ran y trafodaethau y gallwn eu cael; yr oedd yn sicr cydnabyddiaeth eang a chroeso am y ffaith bod y pwynt gyrchfan wedi’i gytuno ac nad oedd unrhyw anghydfod ynghylch lle mae angen inni fod. Yr wyf yn gobeithio y byddwn yn gallu ennill digon o hyblygrwydd inni yma i benderfynu sut yr ydym yn cyrraedd y pwynt hwnnw.

Members have referred to modelling work that has been undertaken by my officials. The current proposals will lead to great problems for particular sectors of the industry, particularly some of the more productive farms in intensive beef and dairy production. That is something that this Government will continue to model. It is a matter we will continue to discuss and consider and I can give assurance to the Chamber that, if the modelling and the proposals demonstrate that there will be a clear impact on these sectors in 2014, we will bring forward proposals to ensure that that impact is mitigated. We will be able to do that. We do not believe that a five-year transition period is sufficient to provide the stability that our farm enterprises will need to be able to adjust their businesses during the period of transition. The 40 per cent step change in the first year is high—extremely high and too high. We need to be able to address those issues.

Mae Aelodau wedi cyfeirio at waith modelu sydd wedi’i wneud gan fy swyddogion. Bydd y cynigion presennol yn arwain at broblemau mawr ar gyfer sectorau penodol o’r diwydiant, yn enwedig rhai o’r ffermydd mwy cynhyrchiol yn cynhyrchu cig eidion a chynnyrch llaeth dwys. Mae hynny’n rhywbeth y bydd y Llywodraeth hon yn parhau i fodelu. Mae’n fater y byddwn yn parhau i drafod ac ystyried a gallaf roi sicrwydd i’r Siambr, os bydd y modelu a’r cynigion yn dangos y bydd effaith glir ar y sectorau hyn yn 2014, byddwn yn cyflwyno cynigion i sicrhau bod yr effaith honno’n cael ei liniaru. Byddwn yn gallu gwneud hynny. Nid ydym yn credu bod cyfnod pontio o bum mlynedd yn ddigon i ddarparu’r sefydlogrwydd y bydd angen ar ein mentrau fferm i allu addasu eu busnesau yn ystod y cyfnod pontio. Mae’r newid sylweddol o 40 y cant yn y flwyddyn gyntaf yn uchel—hynod o uchel ac yn rhy uchel. Mae angen inni allu mynd i’r afael â’r materion hynny.

On greening, I agree absolutely and entirely with what Rebecca Evans said. Greening and food production are not mutually exclusive concepts. Clearly, food production is what agriculture exists to do and we need to promote and support the production of food across the whole of this country. However, it has to be done in a way that does not harm the environment and that enhances the environment. Land management has to be taken seriously and has to be a key part of the food production process. I believe that we are able to achieve that and Glastir demonstrates how that can be done. The greening proposals as they exist today are rigid and present a one-size-fits-all approach. I understand the Commission’s proposals and what it is trying to do. The direct payment under pillar 1 is the key instrument that it has to deliver policy across the whole of the union. That is clearly true and it is why it wants to introduce greening under pillar 1. For us, it is important that we have the flexibility to demonstrate that, where we have a more sophisticated device, such as Glastir, it is seen to be the way that we are able to deliver greening in Wales.

Ar wyrddu, cytunaf yn llwyr ac yn gyfan gwbl â’r hyn a ddywedodd Rebecca Evans. Nid yw gwyrddu a chynhyrchu bwyd yn gysyniadau sy’n nacáu’r naill y llall. Yn amlwg, mae amaethyddiaeth yn bodoli er mwyn cynhyrchu bwyd ac mae angen inni hyrwyddo a chefnogi cynhyrchu bwyd ar hyd a lled y wlad hon. Fodd bynnag, mae’n rhaid iddo gael ei wneud mewn ffordd nad yw’n niweidio’r amgylchedd ac sy’n gwella’r amgylchedd. Mae’n rhaid cymryd rheoli tir o ddifrif ac mae’n rhaid iddi fod yn rhan allweddol o’r broses o gynhyrchu bwyd. Yr wyf yn credu ein bod yn gallu cyflawni hynny ac y mae Glastir yn dangos sut y gellir gwneud hynny. Mae’r cynigion gwyrddu fel y maent yn bodoli heddiw yn anhyblyg ac yn cyflwyno dull gweithredu unffurf. Deallaf gynigion y Comisiwn a’r hyn y mae’n ceisio ei wneud. Mae’r taliad uniongyrchol o dan golofn 1 yn offeryn allweddol sydd ganddo i gyflwyno polisi ar draws yr undeb i gyd. Mae hynny’n amlwg yn wir a dyna pam y mae am gyflwyno gwyrddu o dan golofn 1. I ni, mae’n bwysig bod gennym yr hyblygrwydd i ddangos, lle mae gennym ddyfais fwy soffistigedig, megis Glastir, y’i gwelir fel y ffordd yr ydym yn gallu darparu gwyrddu yng Nghymru.

Andrew R.T. Davies: One of the things that all these schemes rely on is delivery. There is comprehensive talk about these schemes potentially being delayed by 12 months, given the negotiations in the European Union. Are you aware that this delay could come into reality?

Andrew R.T. Davies: Un o’r pethau y mae’r holl gynlluniau hyn yn dibynnu arnynt yw cyflawni. Mae sôn cynhwysfawr am y cynlluniau hyn yn cael eu gohirio o bosibl am 12 mis, o ystyried y trafodaethau yn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. A ydych yn ymwybodol y gallai’r oedi hwn ddod yn realiti?

Alun Davies: No. In terms of where we are today, we have ensured that there is sufficient flexibility built into the Glastir scheme. The announcements that I made last week, which I think have been broadly welcomed across the whole of the industry, demonstrate that we are taking Glastir forward with the intention of delivering a scheme that is CAP-proof, futureproof and able to deliver greater and more sophisticated greening than is currently being proposed under pillar 1. Therefore, we are very confident [Interruption.] You can carry on as much as you like, but we are confident that we will deliver the greening package that the Commission requires and we will do it in Wales in a way that delivers far more environmental benefits than are currently proposed under pillar 1.

Alun Davies: Na. O ran lle’r ydym heddiw, yr ydym wedi sicrhau bod digon o hyblygrwydd wedi’i hadeiladu i mewn i’r cynllun Glastir. Mae’r cyhoeddiadau a wneuthum yr wythnos diwethaf, a chredaf eu bod wedi’u croesawu’n gyffredinol ledled y diwydiant, yn dangos ein bod yn cymryd Glastir ymlaen gyda’r bwriad o gyflwyno cynllun sy’n ddiogel rhag PAC, yn ddiogel rhag y dyfodol ac yn gallu sicrhau gwell gwyrddu a gwyrddu mwy soffistigedig nag sy’n cael ei gynnig ar hyn o bryd o dan golofn 1. Felly, yr ydym yn hyderus iawn [Torri ar draws.] Gallwch barhau gymaint ag y dymunwch, ond yr ydym yn hyderus y byddwn yn cyflawni pecyn gwyrddu sy’n ofynnol gan y Comisiwn a byddwn yn gwneud hyn yng Nghymru mewn ffordd sy’n darparu llawer mwy o fanteision amgylcheddol na’r hyn a gynigir ar hyn o bryd o dan golofn 1.

In terms of where we are going in relation to other issues, I have already referred to our current position with regard to Glastir. We are confident that Glastir will ensure that the farmers who enter the scheme in the current application period will have flexibility and the necessary break clauses will be in place to give them the confidence to do that.

O ran ein cyfeiriad ar faterion eraill, yr wyf eisoes wedi cyfeirio at ein sefyllfa bresennol mewn perthynas â Glastir. Yr ydym yn hyderus y bydd Glastir yn sicrhau y bydd y ffermwyr sy’n ymuno â’r cynllun yn y cyfnod cais presennol yn cael hyblygrwydd a bydd y cymalau terfynu angenrheidiol yn eu lle i roi’r hyder iddynt i wneud hynny.

I understand the points that Members have made with regard to active farmers. I support the Commission’s view that we need to ensure that the CAP receipt is directed at those who derive their primary economic livelihood from farming. We do not want to penalise those farmers who, out of necessity, have developed alternative income streams, but we know that we need to support the family farm, as has already been referred to.

Yr wyf yn deall y pwyntiau y mae Aelodau wedi’u gwneud o ran ffermwyr actif. Yr wyf yn cefnogi barn y Comisiwn bod angen inni sicrhau bod y dderbynneb PAC yn cael ei gyfeirio at y rhai y mae eu bywoliaeth economaidd gynradd yn deillio o ffermio. Nid ydym am gosbi’r ffermwyr hynny sydd, o reidrwydd, wedi datblygu ffrydiau incwm amgen, ond yr ydym yn gwybod bod angen inni gefnogi’r fferm deuluol, fel y cyfeirir ato eisoes.

There are a number of elements in pillar 1, such as the top-slicing to provide support for young farmers, the small-scale farmers’ scheme and the limited coupled payments. I am still unconvinced that the sort of complexity that has been introduced under pillar 1 by some of these proposals is what we should be doing. I hope that we will have a pillar 1 that is seen to provide the economic support that we need to deliver support for the industry.

Mae nifer o elfennau mewn colofn 1, megis y frigdorri i ddarparu cefnogaeth i ffermwyr ifanc, cynllun ffermwyr ar raddfa fach a’r taliadau cysylltiedig cyfyngedig. Nid wyf wedi fy narbwyllo eto mai’r math o gymhlethdod sydd wedi’i gyflwyno o dan golofn 1 gan rai o’r cynigion hyn yw beth y dylem ei wneud. Gobeithiaf y bydd gennym golofn 1 sy’n cael ei weld i ddarparu’r cymorth economaidd y mae angen arnom i ddarparu cymorth ar gyfer y diwydiant.

I would like to conclude my remarks by saying a few things about pillar 2. I want to see a much richer debate on pillar 2, as it provides us with far greater opportunity and some quite exciting possibilities to ensure that we have the competitiveness that Russell George spoke about and that we are able to provide the support for the supply chains that Llyr spoke about, that we are able to deliver greater support for supply chains in dairy, horticulture and other areas where we are not doing so at the moment. This is how we deliver a much strengthened rural economy. It is also my view that this is how we can deliver the economic benefits that we all agree we want to see.

Hoffwn gloi fy sylwadau drwy ddweud ychydig o bethau am golofn 2. Yr wyf am weld trafodaeth llawer cyfoethocach ar golofn 2, gan ei fod yn ein darparu gyda llawer mwy o gyfle a rhai posibiliadau eithaf cyffrous i sicrhau bod gennym y gallu cystadleuol, y siaradodd Russell George amdano, a’n bod yn gallu darparu’r gefnogaeth i’r cadwyni cyflenwi, y siaradodd Llŷr amdano, a’n bod yn gallu darparu mwy o gefnogaeth i gadwyni cyflenwi mewn llaeth, garddwriaeth a meysydd eraill lle nad ydym yn gwneud hynny ar hyn o bryd. Dyma sut yr ydym yn darparu economi wledig gryfach o lawer. Dyma hefyd, yn fy marn i, sut y gallwn sicrhau’r manteision economaidd y cytunwn oll yr ydym am eu gweld.

It is pillar 2 that gives us the instruments and the opportunities to shape the rural economy. I hope that we will have debate on pillar 2. All too often, we simply debate pillar 1 and direct payments. I want to see a debate that is far richer than that and which looks at how CAP can shape and underpin the rural economy. We have the opportunity to do that over the next weeks and months. I hope that Members will support that and that they will take part in and lead that debate. The Welsh Government will certainly inform and lead that debate, and I look forward to coming back to the Chamber in the next few months with the results of our debate. I look forward to ensuring that there is a strong Welsh voice wherever these matters are debated and discussed and that there is a very strong Welsh consensus when we come to make decisions on these matters.

Colofn 2 sy’n rhoi inni’r offerynnau a’r cyfleoedd inni lunio’r economi wledig. Yr wyf yn gobeithio y byddwn yn cael dadl ar golofn 2. Yn llawer rhy aml, rydym dim ond yn trafod colofn 1 a thaliadau uniongyrchol. Yr wyf am weld dadl sy’n llawer cyfoethocach na hynny ac sy’n edrych ar sut y gall PAC siapio a bod yn sail i’r economi wledig. Mae gennym y cyfle i wneud hynny yn ystod yr wythnosau a’r misoedd nesaf. Yr wyf yn gobeithio y bydd yr Aelodau’n cefnogi hynny ac y byddant yn cymryd rhan mewn ac yn arwain y ddadl honno. Bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn sicr yn llywio ac yn arwain y ddadl honno, ac yr wyf yn edrych ymlaen at ddod yn ôl i’r Siambr yn ystod y misoedd nesaf gyda chanlyniadau ein dadl. Yr wyf yn edrych ymlaen at sicrhau bod llais cryf Cymreig lle bynnag y mae’r materion hyn yn cael eu trin a’u trafod a bod consensws Cymreig cryf iawn pan ddown i wneud penderfyniadau ar y materion hyn.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: The proposal is to agree amendment 1. Does any Member object?  I see that there is no objection. Therefore, amendment 1 is agreed in accordance with Standing Order No. 12.36.

 Dirprwy Lywydd: Y cynnig yw cytuno ar welliant 1. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Gwelaf nad oes gwrthwynebiad. Felly, caiff gwelliant 1 ei dderbyn yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 12.36.

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment agreed.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Amendment 2 has been withdrawn.

Dirprwy Lywydd: Tynnwyd gwelliant 2 yn ôl.

The proposal is to agree amendment 3. Does any Member object? I see that there is no objection. Therefore, amendment 3 is agreed in accordance with Standing Order No. 12.36.

Y cynnig yw cytuno ar welliant 3. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Gwelaf nad oes gwrthwynebiad. Felly, caiff gwelliant 3 ei dderbyn yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 12.36.

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment agreed.

Cynnig NDM4865 fel y’i diwygiwyd:

Motion NDM4865 as amended:

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yn nodi bod cael y fargen orau i Gymru yn flaenoriaeth bwysig i Lywodraeth Cymru wrth ddiwygio’r PAC.

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales notes that securing the best deal for Wales from CAP Reform is a key priority for the Welsh Government.

Yn cydnabod ei bod yn hanfodol diogelu dyfodol ffermydd teulu yng Nghymru yn ystod trafodaethau am ddiwygio’r PAC.

Recognises that it is vital to secure the future of Welsh family farms during CAP reform negotiations.

Yn nodi’r effaith anghymesur a gaiff diwygio’r PAC ar systemau fferm gwahanol ac yn cydnabod bod angen trefniadau trosiannol priodol.

Notes the disproportionate impact CAP Reform will have on different farm systems and recognises the need for appropriate transitional arrangements.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: The proposal is to agree the motion as amended. Does any Member object? I see that there is no objection. Therefore, the motion as amended is agreed in accordance with Standing Order No. 12.36.

Dirprwy Lywydd: Y cynnig yw cytuno ar y cynnig fel y’i diwygiwyd. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Gwelaf nad oes gwrthwynebiad. Felly, caiff y cynnig fel y’i diwygiwyd ei dderbyn yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 12.36.

Derbyniwyd cynnig NDM4865 fel y’i diwygiwyd.

Motion NDM4865 as amended agreed.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: That concludes today’s business.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Dyna ddiwedd busnes heddiw.